richart
Major Champion
So close to the Holy Grail John, to be thwarted at the last.
Are the new generation of golfers being conned?
- Thread starter bobmac
- Start date
So close to the Holy Grail John, to be thwarted at the last.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
I must admit I do find the whole custom fit concept funny sometimes, a friend bought a new set of C/F Titleist AP1's which were 1° flat I believe, and then had a few lessons... he told me the pro was getting him to work on his swingplane to get his hands a little higher/steeper... bang goes the whole point of the custom fit!
Junior
Tour Winner
I've said before, I dont mind whatsoever that manufacturers bring out clubs so quickly these days , as it just knocks down the price of the stuff that was out 6 months ago. Also , the 2nd hand golf club market seem's to offer clubs in as new condition for a lot less. I know our pro has some decent used gear and golfbidder / ebay do a roaring trade on clubs.
I do think that to an extent new golfers are being conned with the hype behind the new gear. As long as they use GI irons and a 460cc driver , be them this years model or last,,,,there's not much more they can do in terms of equipment to improve their game.
I do think that to an extent new golfers are being conned with the hype behind the new gear. As long as they use GI irons and a 460cc driver , be them this years model or last,,,,there's not much more they can do in terms of equipment to improve their game.
bobmac
Major Champion
a friend bought a new set of C/F Titleist AP1's which were 1° flat I believe, and then had a few lessons... he told me the pro was getting him to work on his swingplane to get his hands a little higher/steeper... bang goes the whole point of the custom fit!
Wouldnt he be 1 deg upright then not flat surely?
User 105
Journeyman Pro
I'm kind of in agreement with Bob here. It's something I've been thinking about for a while.
I honestly think for most golfers a set of irons with a standard lie and reg shafts would work just as well as a set of CF'd clubs.
Sure if you fancy some new irons, have the cash, then get the Cf'd at the same time. Can't do any harm, won't cost you any more.
I was recently fitted for my s56's and they spec'd yellow dot and stiff shafts. But tbh if you stuck a set of black dot reg shafted clubs in my hand I doubt it would make much difference to my average scores
I honestly think for most golfers a set of irons with a standard lie and reg shafts would work just as well as a set of CF'd clubs.
Sure if you fancy some new irons, have the cash, then get the Cf'd at the same time. Can't do any harm, won't cost you any more.
I was recently fitted for my s56's and they spec'd yellow dot and stiff shafts. But tbh if you stuck a set of black dot reg shafted clubs in my hand I doubt it would make much difference to my average scores
USER1999
Grand Slam Winner
The thing that I got out of my c/f session was a shaft decision. I have swapped randomely between stiff and regular all my golfing life, with no real purpose.
And guess what the c/f session showed up?
I am borderline and can hit either.
No sh sherlock.
And guess what the c/f session showed up?
I am borderline and can hit either.
No sh sherlock.
JustOne
Ryder Cup Winner
a friend bought a new set of C/F Titleist AP1's which were 1° flat I believe, and then had a few lessons... he told me the pro was getting him to work on his swingplane to get his hands a little higher/steeper... bang goes the whole point of the custom fit!
Wouldnt he be 1 deg upright then not flat surely?
I think that his swing was flat and he used to catch the ball with the heel down and the toe end slightly up so he got clubs that were 1° flat to (apparently) get the toe down, he then started having lessons and the pro told him to work on getting his hands/swingplane higher thus negating the 1° flat he had been C/F'd for...
does that sound about right?
bobmac
Major Champion
a friend bought a new set of C/F Titleist AP1's which were 1° flat I believe, and then had a few lessons... he told me the pro was getting him to work on his swingplane to get his hands a little higher/steeper... bang goes the whole point of the custom fit!
Wouldnt he be 1 deg upright then not flat surely?
I think that his swing was flat and he used to catch the ball with the heel down and the toe end slightly up so he got clubs that were 1° flat to (apparently) get the toe down, he then started having lessons and the pro told him to work on getting his hands/swingplane higher thus negating the 1° flat he had been C/F'd for...
does that sound about right?
Perfick
To be honest though not all manufacturers are as bad as TM. Aren't Mizzy and Ping on record as saying they work on a two year product cycle which means they won't be any "major" brand revamps until either late 2011 or early 2012. Surely that has a modicum of respect towards the buying public and a belief in your own brand.
I've tried C/F and I've bought off the shelf. My swing is consistant but has too many variables to be reliable and needs everything to click into place to work regularly. That is part of my quest, to reduce the moving parts. However I don't think it'll ever get to a stage where I need to worry about a degree +/- although I do think there is some mileage in getting a shaft that works as efficiently as possible.
Are we being conned? I don't think so. I came a cross an old GM from September 1986 at the weekend and it had clubs in there I remember coveting and would have tried and probably bought if there were the same oppotunities to test clubs as there are today. I think it is the marketing that has got slicker not the product but then I think that's the same across consumerism in general. I am as gullable as anyone for the lure of a shiny new stick but as long as I don't lead me and HID down the road to afford such extravagences then I'll continue to do so.
I've tried the I15's and they haven't performed for me and so the TP's are staying. Will I keep looking? Of course (cue the JPX 800) but that is just the way I am and not because of any adverts.
I've tried C/F and I've bought off the shelf. My swing is consistant but has too many variables to be reliable and needs everything to click into place to work regularly. That is part of my quest, to reduce the moving parts. However I don't think it'll ever get to a stage where I need to worry about a degree +/- although I do think there is some mileage in getting a shaft that works as efficiently as possible.
Are we being conned? I don't think so. I came a cross an old GM from September 1986 at the weekend and it had clubs in there I remember coveting and would have tried and probably bought if there were the same oppotunities to test clubs as there are today. I think it is the marketing that has got slicker not the product but then I think that's the same across consumerism in general. I am as gullable as anyone for the lure of a shiny new stick but as long as I don't lead me and HID down the road to afford such extravagences then I'll continue to do so.
I've tried the I15's and they haven't performed for me and so the TP's are staying. Will I keep looking? Of course (cue the JPX 800) but that is just the way I am and not because of any adverts.
SharkAttack
Q-School Graduate
BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOBBBBBBB!!
One, isn't touting for some business to pay for the Christmas prezzies are we?
Shark
One, isn't touting for some business to pay for the Christmas prezzies are we?
Shark
Tiger
Money List Winner
I'm guessing Bob your issue is with golfer's mentality rather than the manufacturers. Business is business. Answer me this if you could repackage the V-Easy every year and charge more money for it and people would buy it and sell their old ones on e-bay you'd do it, wouldn't you.
My finances are tight so I have relied on birthday and christmas money and a train season ticket rebate to buy most of my kit. The money I do have I spend on lessons. Perhaps that means I'm savvy.
However, if I had loads of disposable income I'm not sure I'd buy golf clubs more regularly. If I did it wouldn't be because I believe the marketing hype that they will actually be longer through design rather than loft adjustment. No. I'd buy new clubs because I'd be able to afford it and everyone loves new kit. Same reason why I'd be clobbered in J Lindberg or Galvin Green and have more golf shoes than Homer and a Stewart electric trolley while you're at it.
There have been loads of pro golfers that have punished their clubs (who was it that stuck their irons in cold water?) It vindicates the individual from responsibility. I've noticed that this malaise seems to be more common with putters and drivers.
From my perspective it is definitely the idiot wielding them
My finances are tight so I have relied on birthday and christmas money and a train season ticket rebate to buy most of my kit. The money I do have I spend on lessons. Perhaps that means I'm savvy.
However, if I had loads of disposable income I'm not sure I'd buy golf clubs more regularly. If I did it wouldn't be because I believe the marketing hype that they will actually be longer through design rather than loft adjustment. No. I'd buy new clubs because I'd be able to afford it and everyone loves new kit. Same reason why I'd be clobbered in J Lindberg or Galvin Green and have more golf shoes than Homer and a Stewart electric trolley while you're at it.
There have been loads of pro golfers that have punished their clubs (who was it that stuck their irons in cold water?) It vindicates the individual from responsibility. I've noticed that this malaise seems to be more common with putters and drivers.
From my perspective it is definitely the idiot wielding them
MashieNiblick
Tour Winner
Agree that there are too many new models promising too much but if you must have the latest gear and can afford it, well and good. For the rest of us it means we can pick up last year's model, about which the manufacturers made the same promises, half price brand new (just did this with a Callaway driver).
I've no doubt that certain factors like head type, shaft flex, lie angle and grip size do need to be right for each player to get the most from whatever swing they have but there seems to be a lot more reliance now on launch monitors and number crunching of spin rates and launch angles (not to mention "smash factor", whatever that is?!!) rather than how a club feels and what the ball flight looks like in real life. Are they just a way of making you think you need a new set of bats when any difference is likely to be marginal at best?
I've no doubt that certain factors like head type, shaft flex, lie angle and grip size do need to be right for each player to get the most from whatever swing they have but there seems to be a lot more reliance now on launch monitors and number crunching of spin rates and launch angles (not to mention "smash factor", whatever that is?!!
) rather than how a club feels and what the ball flight looks like in real life. Are they just a way of making you think you need a new set of bats when any difference is likely to be marginal at best?
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
Replying to the original thread started by bob, in my opinion this is the most frustrating sport on the planet. A golf swing has so many mechanics that one thing wrong can have a horrifying outcome. With that in mind it's only natural for someone to look at any advantage they can to make the sport easier.
Like bob said I think were spoiled by too much choice, and choice causes doubt. I think in general we are far to easily sucked into sales bull-****.
I am going to have a lesson with my pro and ask him to check my swing speed with various clubs through my set to see if my swing speed is too fast for my re-ax regular steel shafts. If the shafts are wrong I may opt for new irons with a better suited shaft and if I do this I'd go custom fit, but if not as much as I'd like nice new custom fit mizzy's it's still the same dick on the end if the stick, so until my swing us sorted the money can go on lessons!
Like bob said I think were spoiled by too much choice, and choice causes doubt. I think in general we are far to easily sucked into sales bull-****.
I am going to have a lesson with my pro and ask him to check my swing speed with various clubs through my set to see if my swing speed is too fast for my re-ax regular steel shafts. If the shafts are wrong I may opt for new irons with a better suited shaft and if I do this I'd go custom fit, but if not as much as I'd like nice new custom fit mizzy's it's still the same dick on the end if the stick, so until my swing us sorted the money can go on lessons!
AMcC
Journeyman Pro
sure it was Bernard Langer
chrisd
Major Champion
Just what I wanted to read Bob as I'm off to Mizuno's tomorrow at New Malden for a custom fit!!
Chris
Chris
JT77
Tour Winner
I do agree with you bob that new clubs wont make you tiger woods or lee westwood, if you cant swing a club you have, then a new ones not making a diff.
For me, I got fit because i got to 10, I swing pretty consistantly and was looking for that little extra help that maybe could save 1 or 2 shots a round, i found that the s300 were maybe too heavy for me and so got kbs shafts in new irons, if they help then happy days, i have no plans to change them for a while so i will make them work lol
For me, I got fit because i got to 10, I swing pretty consistantly and was looking for that little extra help that maybe could save 1 or 2 shots a round, i found that the s300 were maybe too heavy for me and so got kbs shafts in new irons, if they help then happy days, i have no plans to change them for a while so i will make them work lol
0
Guest
Brilliant!
As a sucker for TM gear - thats class
0
Guest
and I got fitted for a new set of R9 TP irons at the weekend which I haven't had chance to hit yet
Ethan
Money List Winner
I don't think the new generation of golfers are getting conned, but they are certainly faced with more choices than before, and there is pretty good evidence that people make better choices when there are fewer choices available.
Clearly the technology has made it easier to get the ball flighted. Anyone who remembers playing a persimmon driver and a balata ball can scarcely compare it to a modern driver and a ProV1. Irons have changed a lot less, though.
I think custom fitting is a good thing, and it is certainly better than the old days when you walked into a shop, the bloke looked at you and said 'You'll be a regular, mate". Custom fitting by eye is OK, but as a scientist, I believe in the science of spin and launch. Custom fitting hasn't reduced my handicap in the last couple of years, but it has allowed me to maintain it despite ever diminishing opportunities to practice and play.
One unfortunate development is the faster product cycle. TM lead the way, of course, with a new driver every fortnight and a new set of irons every month. I am sure that compared to 3 or 4 years ago, the current stuff is a bit better, but each step must represent a tiny improvement. I think it is also unfortunate that they have gone down the road of strengthening lofts and adding length to fool players into thinking they can hit the ball further. Sadly, most other manufacturers have followed suit. Mizuno recently commented that they were forced, reluctantly, to slightly strengthen the lofts of their irons because they were getting press coverage that they were short compared to other brands.
Clearly the technology has made it easier to get the ball flighted. Anyone who remembers playing a persimmon driver and a balata ball can scarcely compare it to a modern driver and a ProV1. Irons have changed a lot less, though.
I think custom fitting is a good thing, and it is certainly better than the old days when you walked into a shop, the bloke looked at you and said 'You'll be a regular, mate". Custom fitting by eye is OK, but as a scientist, I believe in the science of spin and launch. Custom fitting hasn't reduced my handicap in the last couple of years, but it has allowed me to maintain it despite ever diminishing opportunities to practice and play.
One unfortunate development is the faster product cycle. TM lead the way, of course, with a new driver every fortnight and a new set of irons every month. I am sure that compared to 3 or 4 years ago, the current stuff is a bit better, but each step must represent a tiny improvement. I think it is also unfortunate that they have gone down the road of strengthening lofts and adding length to fool players into thinking they can hit the ball further. Sadly, most other manufacturers have followed suit. Mizuno recently commented that they were forced, reluctantly, to slightly strengthen the lofts of their irons because they were getting press coverage that they were short compared to other brands.
Oddsocks
Ryder Cup Winner
So mizzy said " can't beat em join em "
