Are Greens Faster?

[Lord Tyrion]

Rather than derail another thread I thought I'd start a new one. Someone asked a question about whether putting stats have improved with new and expensive putters, at pro level.

My interest in golf is relatively recent, last 10 years or so, and looking at old footage, Nicklaus and older, the greens don't look the best. That offers some problems but equally modern courses, mainly thinking the US, can be lightening quick which offers equal putting difficulties.

I'm not claiming one era is better than another but is it fair to say greens for the pro's are now smoother and faster than before or is that just an illusion of tv footage and picture quality?

 

[Crow]

Definitely smoother and faster these days. Old footage of the greens at the Masters highlights this too.
I don't know if this has been a gradual thing or something that happened over short period of time when machinery/knowledge took a leap forward.

Going further back to pre-war, old putters used to have quite a bit of loft compared to today's in order to get the ball slightly up and rolling.

 

[Fish]

I’d like to know when was the first ever stimp reading, and what was it set as for tournament standard.

I believe tournament standard is now 11, so why do some clubs think it’s ok to have as high as 13 for handicap golfers?

 

[jim8flog]

Yes smother and faster mainly down to much better equipment.

They were set at 10 for us, where I play, this weekend.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Greens have definitely smoother which is a plus for the pros and are definitely quicker. I don't think there are too many on tour now that will remember the greens before then. I think it was inevitable the quicker greens would feed down to clubs but not sure it's always a good thing.

 

[the_coach]

Rather than derail another thread I thought I'd start a new one. Someone asked a question about whether putting stats have improved with new and expensive putters, at pro level.

My interest in golf is relatively recent, last 10 years or so, and looking at old footage, Nicklaus and older, the greens don't look the best. That offers some problems but equally modern courses, mainly thinking the US, can be lightening quick which offers equal putting difficulties.

I'm not claiming one era is better than another but is it fair to say greens for the pro's are now smoother and faster than before or is that just an illusion of tv footage and picture quality?

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/in-the-race-to-faster-greens-caution-signs-abound-us-open

 

[HampshireHog]

Ours were reported as 12 last week for the club champs, haven’t been close to this all year. Went down for a practice putt today ahead of a match tomorrow and the practice green is even quicker than last week.

I’ve consigned my 2 ball fang, mallet to the garage for the foreseeable future until normal service is resumed. Quite liked the feel of my Versa 1W on a fast green.

 

[clubchamp98]

Science just look at football pitches now compared to 70s 80s ,

The equipment , strains of grass , ironing the greens.
Flat greens 12 is ok
Sloping greens 12 is a bit silly.

 

[shortgame]

I believe tournament standard is now 11, so why do some clubs think it’s ok to have as high as 13 for handicap golfers?

Inflated egos, you know the type. Often average courses who need a selling/talking point

Personally not a fan of mega fast greens - smoothness is king for me

 

[Tashyboy]

Woodhall spa was quick today. Very quick

 

[duncan mackie]

Looking at some of the very early films you will be observing the 1.62" ball which was noticeably more responsive to variation in the green surface - one of the reasons for introducing the 1.68" ball

 

[Deleted member 18588]

One of the biggest differences from 1970 when I started playing is that green speeds are more consistent throughout the year and less weather sensitive.

Back in those days wet weather often meant painfully slow putting surfaces but, conversely, a warm dry spell would turn them into glass

The record summer of 1976 produced some lightening quick greens.

 

[jim8flog]

What I hate is when green staff suddenly get the greens much faster than normal for a specific competition. You get no time to adjust.

 

[mikejohnchapman]

I’d like to know when was the first ever stimp reading, and what was it set as for tournament standard.

I believe tournament standard is now 11, so why do some clubs think it’s ok to have as high as 13 for handicap golfers?

Fairly sure Mr Stimpson invented it in the US in the late 1930's. Think the USGA first used it in anger in the 1970's as a way of checking green speeds.

 

[the_coach]

I’d like to know when was the first ever stimp reading, and what was it set as for tournament standard.

I believe tournament standard is now 11, so why do some clubs think it’s ok to have as high as 13 for handicap golfers?

Fairly sure Mr Stimpson invented it in the US in the late 1930's. Think the USGA first used it in anger in the 1970's as a way of checking green speeds.

"The Stimpmeter, invented in the 1930s but not made standard practice by the USGA until the 1970s, is a yardstick-like trough that releases a ball on a green through gravity to measure greenspeed in feet of roll. When it was initially devised by noted Massachusetts amateur Edward V. Stimpson more than 80 years ago, his concern was that greens, particularly at 1935 U.S. Open-venue Oakmont, had simply become too fast. While Stimpson never measured Oakmont back in the day, experts believe those slippery surfaces would have likely been “stimping” at about a 5. Last year, the greens at Oakmont on Sunday of the U.S. Open were close to triple that speed."

taken from the link I posted in post #5 - the article written few years back

 

[shortgame]

Interesting - thanks Coach 👍

 

[Crazyface]

I'm not sure the HGK will still have a job at my place after experiencing his pins positions on very slick greens on Friday. The Saturday comp must have been fun....NOT

 

[Deleted member 1147]

I know sometimes our club greens can feel very fast, but I would question whether they are actually reaching 12 or 13.
Our club aim for 9-10 as normal, with 11 being the target for big competitions. When like that they are awfully quick.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I know sometimes our club greens can feel very fast, but I would question whether they are actually reaching 12 or 13.
Our club aim for 9-10 as normal, with 11 being the target for big competitions. When like that they are awfully quick.

We were officially 12 (and a hare more) for the Jamega Tour recently. I played the Grove when they said they were 12.4 and managed to putt off the green with my opening effort on the practice green

 

[HampshireHog]

Not sure what they are officially but Liphook greens are always pretty quick. Should give a few of the H4H players a scare in October.