Appeal against speeding fine

[AliMc]

Would being 15 mph over the limit exclude you from having the opportunity of a Speed Awareness Course?

EDIT:
Just read up and the upper limit is 10% + 9 mph, so could be close.

Don't know if it's an option in Scotland for this speed

 

[AliMc]

I guess this is what you need to challenge then with your photo evidence (taken from the National Highways Agency website..)

Visibility of VSL signs​

The enforcement equipment includes video cameras which are directed at the signs to 'see', 'read' and record the displayed speed limit.
This provides assurance that the limit being enforced is visible to drivers. If the camera can see and interpret the speed limit, then we know that drivers can see and interpret the same signs.
Our VSL signage complies with the applicable Design Manual for Roads and Bridges which ensures they are visible to drivers from at least 300 metres away.
This means that, no matter what speed limits are set on other nearby gantries (including the 70mph National Speed Limit), the displayed VSL must always be complied with.


If the sign was visible from 300 meters then at 60mph she had roughly 11 seconds to react. Usually though, if a variable speed limit is set, prior gantries give warning in advance (flashing signs?).

We came back from the British Superbikes at Knockhill on the same road and while Anna took a couple of photos (which show the trees clearly obstructing the gantry) i done a rough measure of the time, at 60mph the time from the displays on the gantry being visible to reaching it was no more than 7 seconds, at the road limit of 70mph this would probably be around 5, the other thing is surely its not normal to go from 70 down to 40 is one jump, especially with no prior notice

 

[Bunkermagnet]

We came back from the British Superbikes at Knockhill on the same road and while Anna took a couple of photos (which show the trees clearly obstructing the gantry) i done a rough measure of the time, at 60mph the time from the displays on the gantry being visible to reaching it was no more than 7 seconds, at the road limit of 70mph this would probably be around 5, the other thing is surely its not normal to go from 70 down to 40 is one jump, especially with no prior notice

I have seen gantry signs go straight to 40 on NSL roads. It normally is because of sudden traffic delays such as tail backs or an accident.

 

[nickjdavis]

We came back from the British Superbikes at Knockhill on the same road and while Anna took a couple of photos (which show the trees clearly obstructing the gantry) i done a rough measure of the time, at 60mph the time from the displays on the gantry being visible to reaching it was no more than 7 seconds, at the road limit of 70mph this would probably be around 5, the other thing is surely its not normal to go from 70 down to 40 is one jump, especially with no prior notice

It would be 6 seconds at 70mph...which normally would be plenty of time to lose the required speed...but if traffic conditions dictated that safe braking wasn't possible then that should be a part of your daughters argument.

Incidentally....has your daughter got a dashcam...might be too late for this incident but could be useful for the future...especially one that looks backwards as well...would have show'n the close proximity of the car that had pulled out behind.

Would be interesting to see the photo of the trees obscuring the gantry.

 

[AliMc]

It would be 6 seconds at 70mph...which normally would be plenty of time to lose the required speed...but if traffic conditions dictated that safe braking wasn't possible then that should be a part of your daughters argument.

Incidentally....has your daughter got a dashcam...might be too late for this incident but could be useful for the future...especially one that looks backwards as well...would have show'n the close proximity of the car that had pulled out behind.

Would be interesting to see the photo of the trees obscuring the gantry.

Doesn't have a dashcam unfortunately but she will be getting one, will have to find out how to load the photo, will try to soon

 

[4LEX]

I hope she gets off on this!

On a related issue, what's the fastest someone has gone and got away with on our roads?

 

[Deleted member 21784]

I hope she gets off on this!

On a related issue, what's the fastest someone has gone and got away with on our roads?

What you mean fastest we have been? I'm not saying the speed but let's say in my youth I got to such a speed that the lamposts were passing me very very fast so I slowed back down as I thought sod that lol

 

[4LEX]

What you mean fastest we have been? I'm not saying the speed but let's say in my youth I got to such a speed that the lamposts were passing me very very fast so I slowed back down as I thought sod that lol

Yep!

We need some actual numbers here, not just the speed of the lamposts

 

[Deleted member 21784]

Yep!

We need some actual numbers here, not just the speed of the lamposts

I'm not writing down the speed lol that's just silly to admit

 

[C7usk]

Chill AliMc....I pass this way at least 2 or 3 times a week.. They are gantrys and not speed Cameras... They don't record your speed... ..if they did I'd be fecked...
They indeed tell l you what the max speed you should be doing is... Unless she went under the Newbridge roundabout over 55mph she will be fine....
..

 

[AliMc]

Chill AliMc....I pass this way at least 2 or 3 times a week.. They are gantrys and not speed Cameras... They don't record your speed... ..if they did I'd be fecked...
They indeed tell l you what the max speed you should be doing is... Unless she went under the Newbridge roundabout over 55mph she will be fine....
..

Thanks C7usk but are you sure, it pops up on my car that there are cameras on that gantry and there are 2 yellow things hanging off the left hand side, this is gantry where there are 2 lanes before it spilts into 4, is it a traffic camera maybe, she said it flashed.
I see both cameras in the dip in the road at Newbridge are currently covered up, lots of cones around
I hope your right !

 

[GreiginFife]

Thanks C7usk but are you sure, it pops up on my car that there are cameras on that gantry and there are 2 yellow things hanging off the left hand side, this is gantry where there are 2 lanes before it spilts into 4, is it a traffic camera maybe, she said it flashed.
I see both cameras in the dip in the road at Newbridge are currently covered up, lots of cones around
I hope your right !

There are only two gantry cameras after the bridge. One before the split for A90 (Edin) and M90 (for M9/Newbridge) and then one at the top of the hill on the M90 before you start going downhill (that left hand bend down to the M9) just as you pass Kirkliston on the left.

Both are active, both are VSL linked.

I can’t recall the Kirkliston one ever being blocked or covered by trees.

 

[AliMc]

Y

There are only two gantry cameras after the bridge. One before the split for A90 (Edin) and M90 (for M9/Newbridge) and then one at the top of the hill on the M90 before you start going downhill (that left hand bend down to the M9) just as you pass Kirkliston on the left.

Both are active, both are VSL linked.

I can’t recall the Kirkliston one ever being blocked or covered by trees.

Yeah that's what I thought by looking online, it will be the second one you mention at Kirkliston, it mentions that the speed limit can either be white on a black background or if it's displayed in a red circle it can lead to penalties, she can't remember which it was.
I agree that the trees aren't blocking the gantry but you can't see the speed limit displays until you are past them, she says the lorry she was passing was one of the tall ones (like the big Buffaload ones) and this obscured her view of the gantry until she was very close to it

 

[GreiginFife]

Y

Yeah that's what I thought by looking online, it will be the second one you mention at Kirkliston, it mentions that the speed limit can either be white on a black background or if it's displayed in a red circle it can lead to penalties, she can't remember which it was.
I agree that the trees aren't blocking the gantry but you can't see the speed limit displays until you are past them, she says the lorry she was passing was one of the tall ones (like the big Buffaload ones) and this obscured her view of the gantry until she was very close to it

Don’t think that’s right tbh, you can see the gantry for a good 750 yards as you crest the top of the hill.

I drive that road multiple times a week (and will be later today) and can’t say I’ve ever struggled to see the gantry. Yeah, a tall lorry would obscure it as you approach it but prior to that should have been visible for a fair distance. Unless, of course, she just wasn’t paying attention to it until it was too late.

I’ll have a look when I pass it later today.

 

[AliMc]

Don’t think that’s right tbh, you can see the gantry for a good 750 yards as you crest the top of the hill.

I drive that road multiple times a week (and will be later today) and can’t say I’ve ever struggled to see the gantry. Yeah, a tall lorry would obscure it as you approach it but prior to that should have been visible for a fair distance. Unless, of course, she just wasn’t paying attention to it until it was too late.

I’ll have a look when I pass it later today.

I accept that, but how do you know what was displayed on that gantry when she was some distance away, she can tell me what was displayed on the previous message boards, the most recent is to do with the M876 so she must having been paying attention to some of them at least, most people around her were breaking heavily so almost everyone must have been caught out, anyway we'll just have to wait and see

 

[Fade and Die]

I accept that, but how do you know what was displayed on that gantry when she was some distance away, she can tell me what was displayed on the previous message boards, the most recent is to do with the M876 so she must having been paying attention to some of them at least, most people around her were breaking heavily so almost everyone must have been caught out, anyway we'll just have to wait and see

As Billy says, wait and see what drops on the mat. I’ve been through a few cameras over the years that have gone off and thought “oh bugger”. Waited and waited and nothing turned up!
Hope she is lucky with it, the first few years of driving are a learning curve for young drivers. If the worst happens then she will have to go to court, (with you for support) and plead her case for leniency.
Many moons ago when I was 18 I got pulled over for driving without due care and attention. I got a summons telling me to appear at Arbor Square magistrate’s court to explain why I shouldn’t lose my licence. My company wrote me a letter explaining that if I lost my licence I would struggle to complete my apprenticeship. I turned up in a shirt and tie, was very sorry, the letter was read out and the magistrate gave me 3 points and a £15 fine. They asked if I needed time to pay but my dad who had taken a day off work to come with me said loudly, with a face like thunder “no he will pay it now”!

 

[GreiginFife]

I accept that, but how do you know what was displayed on that gantry when she was some distance away, she can tell me what was displayed on the previous message boards, the most recent is to do with the M876 so she must having been paying attention to some of them at least, most people around her were breaking heavily so almost everyone must have been caught out, anyway we'll just have to wait and see

Loads of folk brake heavy there as they all fly up there to try and get ahead of slower traffic and then hammer on the brakes at the camera. See it every day almost.

As I say, you can see that gantry for a fair distance. But yes, see what happens as I know a few folk that have been flashed but not ticketed on those gantries.

 

[GreiginFife]

Speaking of cameras. Just passed an unmarked hiding in a junction off a dual carriageway with a small handheld device.

No identifying marks, no hi-vis colours anywhere. Seems a bit dodgy to me. If that’s what they are resorting to then it has to be nothing more than a cash grab.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Loads of folk brake heavy there as they all fly up there to try and get ahead of slower traffic and then hammer on the brakes at the camera. See it every day almost.

As I say, you can see that gantry for a fair distance. But yes, see what happens as I know a few folk that have been flashed but not ticketed on those gantries.

You see that all the time on the M25. Those little yellow ones mounted on a wing of the gantry are active all day every day at what ever the limit is including 70. As soon as any sign shows a speed on any of the signs people immediatly slow down now.
I have seen those little yellow ones flash a flyer in the outside lane of the M25 at 3am, just me in the inside lane doing 55 (going to Gatwick to pick up my waife after she had been away) and said flyer in lane 4 doing 85 ish. He must have set off every camera. I did chuckle to myself.

 

[C7usk]

Good luck Ali.. I was thinking it was the gantry further on, at the M90/M9 merge.
I think this is prob the one you are on about, on the M90 S/B before you get to split for going N/B or S/B.
I never really paid much attention to the cameras on them before..
Hopefully nothing comes of it...