And, we’re off.......2018/2019

[Bazzatron]

Burnley didn't really like their trip abroad this season though. After all the build up of 'little Burnley' getting into Europe, they played a half strength team and got knocked out at the first hurdle.

I'll never understand that mindset, what's the point of having a good go at finishing as high as you can if you don't take Europe seriously.

 

[Orikoru]

Ok I’ll try it a different way and use facts

England in the World Cup came up against their first strong opposition - Belguim - lost , then they played Croatia same system same tactics - lost then they played Belgium again same tactic same system - lost , so three times against three strong oppostions and they lost each time. So they come up against Spain another strong opposition so is the manager going to change his system and tactics when it’s clearly not working against the better teams - nope same tactics and same system and guess what - lost.

So looking at the facts England played the same system and tactics in matches against strong opposition and lost every time - so why wouldn’t a manager look to make a change when those tactics and system quite clearly struggles against the better nations. Why not find a way to compete better in the middle , why not find a way to support Kane better as opposed to leaving him isolated with zero supply line bar someone lumping balls and waiting for set pieces.

So with it clear that England can’t beat the better nations using the current system what will be the result if they continue to use the system against those nations ? They will continue to lose. There was a superb debate on the Monday night club on 5live last night and they all said the same thing - England need support for Kane , they need to be braver in the middle and get better numbers in the middle and if they want to progress they need to step away from a system that doesn’t work against the better nations

Real football isn't like a game of Fifa, you can't just change formation on a whim and see how it goes. The way they play on the pitch is the result of many months of training all geared towards, and players selected to fill specific roles in the system. You only get limited time in England training, so he's chosen a system and stuck with it, rather than changing it every time they come back. The Belgium 3rd place game we were outclassed by a better side, but I feel we should have won the Croatia game, we slipped up with a couple of individual errors though.

Our support for Kane is Sterling, but he pulled out injured, I think. Hence Rashford played in that role, and he scored. Alli and Lingard are also meant to support from midfield, if they're not doing it then that's on them as individuals and I'm sure others will be given a chance, such as Loftus-Cheek tonight.

 

[pbrown7582]

Well UEFA are getting the defribilator out and trying to resurrect the 3rd best UEFA competition that they used to have:-

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/uefa-prepare-big-rule-change-15136349

I actually agree with it, depending on how the qualification process works out. I'm sure the likes of Southampton, Burnely and others (including us in our more lean years) would still like a few trips abroad.

maybe all the domestic cup winners will quailfy and play against each other?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I'll never understand that mindset, what's the point of having a good go at finishing as high as you can if you don't take Europe seriously.

You want to get as high as you can to prove how good you are, personal pride etc. The Europa League after that is just a drain. Minimal value to it unless you win but to win takes an awful lot of games and a heck of a squad, something most teams who come 6-7th in the league will not have. The impact on a team in their domestic league is frequently significant and trashes your following season. If I was a manager at an Everton, Leicester, Burnley etc and qualified for the EL then I would leave my 1st team players at home and play the squad players who are not getting a regular match. Perhaps the following year, from coming 6th you could build and make 4th. Better that than going out at some stage in the EL and coming 8th in the PL. You go backwards instead of forwards.

 

[Liverbirdie]

Burnley didn't really like their trip abroad this season though. After all the build up of 'little Burnley' getting into Europe, they played a half strength team and got knocked out at the first hurdle.

They got through 1-2 rounds before didnt they? I know Aberdeen was one, was there another one as well, before they were knocked out?

One simple solution, but UEFA would have to be brave:-

Split the prize money and TV money for ALL European competition across the 3 competitions.

40% to CL teams

35% to Europa teams

25% to the 3rd one

If teams still earned 15-20 million (for instance), plus gate receipts etc, it may encourage them to get the bigger squads, sign a few extra players o be able to compete.

Tuesday 6.00 europa games 8.00 pm CL games

Wednesday 6.00 cup winners cup, 8.00 CL games

No Thursday football.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Nice idea LB but the big boys will never agree to that. They don't want the money spreading out.

 

[Orikoru]

There should be less teams in Europe, not more. Even speaking as a Spurs fan and knowing this would not benefit us at all - I think if you're going to call something the Champions League then you can't really have 3rd and 4th placed teams in it. That's illogical. Maybe the Champions and the Domestic Cup winners should qualifying for the 'champions league' (winning the cup makes you a champion of sorts), 2nd and 3rd can go in the other European Cup (or 4th if one of the other two was the cup winner) and that's it. No scraping into Europe by finishing 7th or 8th, which is borderline mid-table.

 

[Bazzatron]

You want to get as high as you can to prove how good you are, personal pride etc. The Europa League after that is just a drain. Minimal value to it unless you win but to win takes an awful lot of games and a heck of a squad, something most teams who come 6-7th in the league will not have. The impact on a team in their domestic league is frequently significant and trashes your following season. If I was a manager at an Everton, Leicester, Burnley etc and qualified for the EL then I would leave my 1st team players at home and play the squad players who are not getting a regular match. Perhaps the following year, from coming 6th you could build and make 4th. Better that than going out at some stage in the EL and coming 8th in the PL. You go backwards instead of forwards.

Can understand all that, as a Wolves fan I've never seen us in Europe, so I'd love it to happen. I

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Great to see 9 changes tonight, glad he’s looking at different players and giving them a chance.

 

[Tashyboy]

Right Tashyboy is back in the house. Re England and centre backs. For me Stones is good. Not saying very good, but good enough to play in a back four like he can at City. I don't think the problem is a back four. The problem for me is the the defensive midfielder. In Dier and Henderson, they do an ok job, but it is only just ok. When we are playing average teams they have nowt to do. When playing better teams ie Croatia. The midfield just gets swamped with players dropping back.
The defensive midfielders role has changed since the Ray Wilkins era, watching Dier and Henderson is like watching Wilkins. If they do win it they have to give it to someone else to try and create. That role has moved on, the defensive midfielder has evolved, think Fernandinho or Rubén Neves. What a player Neves is.
For me Dier and Henderson are the weak links.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Right Tashyboy is back in the house. Re England and centre backs. For me Stones is good. Not saying very good, but good enough to play in a back four like he can at City. I don't think the problem is a back four. The problem for me is the the defensive midfielder. In Dier and Henderson, they do an ok job, but it is only just ok. When we are playing average teams they have nowt to do. When playing better teams ie Croatia. The midfield just gets swamped with players dropping back.
The defensive midfielders role has changed since the Ray Wilkins era, watching Dier and Henderson is like watching Wilkins. If they do win it they have to give it to someone else to try and create. That role has moved on, the defensive midfielder has evolved, think Fernandinho or Rubén Neves. What a player Neves is.
For me Dier and Henderson are the weak links.

Disagree mate, hate to say it Henderson, imo, was one of the big success’s of the WC, but I’ll admit he hasn’t got the vision of someone like Gerrard or Lampard had, he does it now and then though.
We need someone just in front of him or even alongside with a bit more freedom to progress.
It’s unfair to blame them for other players dropping too deep and causing issues.

 

[PJ87]

Bugs me when they change players numbers

Kane in the squad he should always be 10 and so on

This nations league won’t change a thing.. 2 players get injured and we call up a 4th keeper instead

Should call up someone like Maddison

 

[HomerJSimpson]

England looking disjointed and average tonight with all the changes. Not sure they are working against a well organised Swiss team who are hardly looking a threat (although should be ahead). The fact is we were beaten by a far better side in the WC by Belgium and were leading against Croatia but were tactically outplayed in the second half and couldn't deal with the individual brilliance of Modric. I think at the moment Southgate is perhaps a little hung up on stats and isn't seeing the quality of the performance and the problems on the pitch the payers are facing. I am also not convinced he's totally certain (based on everyone being fit and available) of his ideal starting 11

As for the Europa league and Burnley struggling, Fulham did exactly the same thing without a massive squad in reserve to deal with injuries and travelling. That said, we tried to make the best of it we could (2nd not a bad effort) but it definitely had a detrimental effect on PL form especially the second time around in 2011/12 when we didn't even have the quality of players we had a few years earlier and it was a big reason why we went down.

 

[ColchesterFC]

maybe all the domestic cup winners will quailfy and play against each other?

This might be a radical idea but perhaps they could call it the "Cup Winners Cup".

 

[fundy]

Spain 5-0 up against a pretty much full strength Croatia side!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Spain 5-0 up against a pretty much full strength Croatia side!

Indeed. Some score that. At least we've now scored and a well taken Rashford goal but it's still a flat performance. Is this new competition really going to be viewed in the same way as a EC/WC qualifer. Still feels like a glorified friendly

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Indeed. Some score that. At least we've now scored and a well taken Rashford goal but it's still a flat performance. Is this new competition really going to be viewed in the same way as a EC/WC qualifer. Still feels like a glorified friendly

This is a friendly!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

This is a friendly!

Look at some of the results so far in this new league though especially the Spain result. Are all the nations really taking it that seriously and just using it as friendlies were intended to try different players and tactics and not get too hung up with results. Should England finish bottom of their pool and get relegated (https://www.uefa.com/uefanationsleague/news/newsid=2079553.html) will the press simply start another campaign against the manager and players? There has to be something better than this "friendly" spectacle and I think we all agree friendlies are often poor viewing especially with so many changes but I felt, even with the poor ref on Saturday, that it still lacked any form of real competitive edge

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Look at some of the results so far in this new league though especially the Spain result. Are all the nations really taking it that seriously and just using it as friendlies were intended to try different players and tactics and not get too hung up with results. Should England finish bottom of their pool and get relegated (https://www.uefa.com/uefanationsleague/news/newsid=2079553.html) will the press simply start another campaign against the manager and players? There has to be something better than this "friendly" spectacle and I think we all agree friendlies are often poor viewing especially with so many changes but I felt, even with the poor ref on Saturday, that it still lacked any form of real competitive edge

No there doesn’t you’re waffling, the season is a few games old, he’s made 9 changes and we’re winning, the players will not want to risk injury either.
You thought this was a Nations League match!

 

[Liverbirdie]

Nice idea LB but the big boys will never agree to that. They don't want the money spreading out.

I know, I can but hope for a more socialist way of spreading the money out in football, rather than the bigger just getting bigger.....