AND HERE WE GO - THE 2019 GENERAL ELECTION THREAD

[harpo_72]

Do you think that the EU will negotiate a decent leave deal with Corbyn if the alternative is that we will vote to stay?

Dunno I reckon he will go for a Norway deal as he will get a big faction of leavers and some remainers meaning a majority- the key is selling it from a cost perspective.
If doesn’t go this route, well let’s say 6 months is over ambitious and the people’s ambivalence increasing

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Do you think that the EU will negotiate a decent leave deal with Corbyn if the alternative is that we will vote to stay?

Who knows mate, by all accounts they are yet to negotiate a decent deal and that’s after 3 years of tories trying.
Neither Party will get a deal without a clear winner, that’s for sure.

 

[Hobbit]

Yeah I know Kent is a Tory strong hold.
The fixed term parliament act can be circumvented . Also I don’t believe 5 years will do the damage - thatcher did sustained damage as did the following Tory governments because they had no comprehension of economics and had sold off all the assets.
Plus pedalled a load rubbish about high taxation from the Labour Party, who to be fair had Foot in but Kinnock and Smith were good options.
So think your scaremongering, or of a nervous disposition.

So basically we have a load of Tory fan boys willing to vote a poor deal in 👍

Labour inherited high tax rates from the Tories, 33% and 75%, and then raised them further, 35% and 83%.

"Top jobs change some people." And you often say that Brexit is a step into the unknown but then are happy to go for Corbyn, who might change? Ironic?

 

[chrisd]

Yeah I know Kent is a Tory strong hold.
The fixed term parliament act can be circumvented . Also I don’t believe 5 years will do the damage - thatcher did sustained damage as did the following Tory governments because they had no comprehension of economics and had sold off all the assets.
Plus pedalled a load rubbish about high taxation from the Labour Party, who to be fair had Foot in but Kinnock and Smith were good options.
So think your scaremongering, or of a nervous disposition.

So basically we have a load of Tory fan boys willing to vote a poor deal in 👍

The trouble is Harpo that your views on Tory governments, and Labour, are quite at odds with my views, it just depends on how you see things and you're entitled to hold those views but I've been around a fair long time and my politics are based on what I've seen since starting to take an interest back in the early 60's.

I can assure you I'm neither of a nervous disposition or scaremongering

 

[chrisd]

Who knows mate, by all accounts they are yet to negotiate a decent deal and that’s after 3 years of tories trying.
Neither Party will get a deal without a clear winner, that’s for sure.

Come on Paul, Corbyn goes to the EU and says we want a better deal than BJ's or we will have to stay, faced with his logic what would you do if you were Barnier?

 

[chrisd]

Who knows mate, by all accounts they are yet to negotiate a decent deal and that’s after 3 years of tories trying.
Neither Party will get a deal without a clear winner, that’s for sure.

So lets hope Boris gets an overall majority then

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Come on Paul, Corbyn goes to the EU and says we want a better deal than BJ's or we will have to stay, faced with his logic what would you do if you were Barnier?

Again though Chris, I really don’t like Corbyn, I don’t trust any of them, but you’re putting words in his mouth.
What if, just what if his Deal appeases more than any others have managed.
It certainly won’t make the extremes on both sides happy, but...........isn’t that what we’ve got now.
Him and boris need a majority that doesn’t rely on others, right now I can’t see either getting it and in all honesty, I’d be happy with Ronald McDonald getting a deal that gets us out.

 

[chrisd]

Again though Chris, I really don’t like Corbyn, I don’t trust any of them, but you’re putting words in his mouth.
What if, just what if his Deal appeases more than any others have managed.
It certainly won’t make the extremes on both sides happy, but...........isn’t that what we’ve got now.
Him and boris need a majority that doesn’t rely on others, right now I can’t see either getting it and in all honesty, I’d be happy with Ronald McDonald getting a deal that gets us out.

Corbyn has always talked of a Customs Union and a single market, neither of which are going to allow us to leave as we would be obliged to accept freedom of movement, The ECJ and all EU laws. I'm NOT extreme and I voted back in the 1970's to join the Common Market but NOT for federalism, an EU army, and a EU Chancellor etc etc so I'd just be happy with a no deal Brexit

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Corbyn has always talked of a Customs Union and a single market, neither of which are going to allow us to leave as we would be obliged to accept freedom of movement, The ECJ and all EU laws. I'm NOT extreme and I voted back in the 1970's to join the Common Market but NOT for federalism, an EU army, and a EU Chancellor etc etc so I'd just be happy with a no deal Brexit

Mate, we’ve had an EU Army in everything by name for years, we work closer with our European Allies than anybody else, that to me is a red herring, as for other worries, who knows.
That’s like me saying the Country is in such a bad state after 9 years of tories we need a change as boris can’t be believed to keep any of his promises.

Pretty sad state we’re in mate, looks like it’s a choice between a perceived lesser of 2 evils! I genuinely worry for my lad.

 

[chrisd]

Mate, we’ve had an EU Army in everything by name for years, we work closer with our European Allies than anybody else, that to me is a red herring, as for other worries, who knows.
That’s like me saying the Country is in such a bad state after 9 years of tories we need a change as boris can’t be believed to keep any of his promises.

Pretty sad state we’re in mate, looks like it’s a choice between a perceived lesser of 2 evils! I genuinely worry for my lad.

To me there's a hell of a difference between an EU army and us working with other EU countries armies. Letting an EU Chancellor decide whether our budgets are ok etc etc.

I've experienced good, bad and indifferent governments but currently we have the lowest interest rates, highest levels of employment etc and think it's not too bad compared to the 70' s and 90's when we had regular recessions 12% mortgages, less employment legislation etc. I dont personally have as much worry about Boris as I do Corbyn given his ties with terrorist organisations, anti semitism as well as the people who would hold top jobs.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

To me there's a hell of a difference between an EU army and us working with other EU countries armies. Letting an EU Chancellor decide whether our budgets are ok etc etc.

I've experienced good, bad and indifferent governments but currently we have the lowest interest rates, highest levels of employment etc and think it's not too bad compared to the 70' s and 90's when we had regular recessions 12% mortgages, less employment legislation etc. I dont personally have as much worry about Boris as I do Corbyn given his ties with terrorist organisations, anti semitism as well as the people who would hold top jobs.

That’s were we disagree, as much as I have my fears over Corbyn, they are much worse over boris.
I too remember the mid 70’s onwards 80’s & 90’s and for so many ways we are better off we are also worse off, foodbanks, child poverty, cuts to emergency services, state of the NHS and a bigger gap between rich and poor than we’ve ever had.
The last 10 years of tory rule hasn’t been good and I don’t see that changing.

 

[chrisd]

That’s were we disagree, as much as I have my fears over Corbyn, they are much worse over boris.
I too remember the mid 70’s onwards 80’s & 90’s and for so many ways we are better off we are also worse off, foodbanks, child poverty, cuts to emergency services, state of the NHS and a bigger gap between rich and poor than we’ve ever had.
The last 10 years of tory rule hasn’t been good and I don’t see that changing.

........ and that's why we vote!
You vote for who you believe will give the best outcome to your wishes, and I mine.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

........ and that's why we vote!
You vote for who you believe will give the best outcome to your wishes, and I mine.

You too Chris and thanks for the decent conversation, nice change to some of what we see.

 

[Hobbit]

That’s were we disagree, as much as I have my fears over Corbyn, they are much worse over boris.
I too remember the mid 70’s onwards 80’s & 90’s and for so many ways we are better off we are also worse off, foodbanks, child poverty, cuts to emergency services, state of the NHS and a bigger gap between rich and poor than we’ve ever had.
The last 10 years of tory rule hasn’t been good and I don’t see that changing.

Absolutely agree that change is desperately needed. But to what?

One things for sure, Austerity has to not only stop, it has to be reversed. There was a report come out Sept time, and a number of articles followed. The mortality rate in the UK trends alongside Austerity. And that trend shows 120,000 premature deaths. Austerity has killed 120,000 people, and on whose watch?

Maybe the UK needs a free spending Labour govt...? Economically dangerous but socially imperative.

 

[harpo_72]

Labour inherited high tax rates from the Tories, 33% and 75%, and then raised them further, 35% and 83%.

"Top jobs change some people." And you often say that Brexit is a step into the unknown but then are happy to go for Corbyn, who might change? Ironic?

Corbyn isn’t as scary as a hard brexit in the grand scheme of things.
What I know is Boris is not good nor is his style of politics or the people he attracts.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

Absolutely agree that change is desperately needed. But to what?

One things for sure, Austerity has to not only stop, it has to be reversed. There was a report come out Sept time, and a number of articles followed. The mortality rate in the UK trends alongside Austerity. And that trend shows 120,000 premature deaths. Austerity has killed 120,000 people, and on whose watch?

Maybe the UK needs a free spending Labour govt...? Economically dangerous but socially imperative.

I believe Chris’s last post, #592 summed it well.
There’s no doubt Corbyn is a good speaker and believes what he says, it’s the rest of us that need convincing.

 

[Hobbit]

Corbyn isn’t as scary as a hard brexit in the grand scheme of things.
What I know is Boris is not good nor is his style of politics or the people he attracts.

you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. He isn’t as scary to you. Others think differently. You‘re right for you, and you are wrong in someone else’s eyes.

And a change of govt isn’t just about Brexit. The “oh, let’s have Corbyn because of his Brexit policy” ignores all the rest of the things HIS Labour govt will do. That is short sighted.

 

[Doon frae Troon]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/pol...-between-generations-in-britain-a3930341.html

Massive difference between UK young and old in voting intentions.

 

[Hobbit]

Corbyn isn’t as scary as a hard brexit in the grand scheme of things.
What I know is Boris is not good nor is his style of politics or the people he attracts.

you’re missing the point I’m trying to make. He isn’t as scary to you. Others think differently. You‘re right for you, and you are wrong in someone else’s eyes.

And a change of govt isn’t just about Brexit. The “oh, let’s have Corbyn because of his Brexit policy” ignores all the rest of the things HIS Labour govt will do. That is short sighted.

Just to add;

"In February this year Labour released figures showing that the party received 673 accusations of anti-Semitism by Labour members between April 2018 and January 2019."

Those figures were released by Labour, not lies from the rightwing press. And Labour is currently under investigation by the Met Police and the Equalities and Human Rights Commission.

If you'd have asked a German, in the 1920's, if 6 million jews would be killed by Germany they would have laughed in your face.

Brexit and the economy aside, do you want a party that is institutionally antisemitic?

 

[harpo_72]

Just to add;

"In February this year Labour released figures showing that the party received 673 accusations of anti-Semitism by Labour members between April 2018 and January 2019."

Those figures were released by Labour, not lies from the rightwing press. And Labour is currently under investigation by the Met Police and the Equalities and Human Rights Commission.

If you'd have asked a German, in the 1920's, if 6 million jews would be killed by Germany they would have laughed in your face.

Brexit and the economy aside, do you want a party that is institutionally antisemitic?

I understand your point, and the anti Semitic stuff is worrying. But let’s put it this way is it acceptable to be is islamphobic ?
Neither is acceptable, but no one here has raised that topic - nor has any one mentioned the overt sexism rife in the Tory party ...
what we have on here is some very right wing skewed views which are propagated by the right wing press.
I have just stated and you have agreed previously that Brexit will determine the policy because it will determine the budget.
What is worrying is your all thinking about what is in the room before you have gone through the door .. And your willing to believe a liar