Am I on to something?

[harpo_72]

Are these stock lie angles ? The 1 length is a concept that may demand this difference.

I would ask what is your driver and fairway shot shape?

I suspect this is related to spin levels with the higher lofts generating more back spin and overcoming the side spin. Where as the lower lofts the back spin is less and the side spin dominates.

So as a quick check, try and hit steeper with the long irons via ball position and see what the results are ..

Otherwise try some std clubs or the forged 1 length and see if the issues replicate themselves.. if they do, then I am afraid it’s you and you need to make a few changes … but hey winters coming and there is plenty of opportunity to find more issues via practice ???

 

[Bamberdele21]

I’ve read this thread back 3 times now and I have come to the conclusion that my brain cells cannot fully digest what people have been saying.

I’d love to reply to each and every one of you but feel as tho I’d be here for a long time.

I’m not being rude I am just a bit thick and I do not quite understand it all.

If everyone can work together with the same opinion and just mash it all into one post that would help me enormously.

Thanks for your replies

 

[Bdill93]

I’ve read this thread back 3 times now and I have come to the conclusion that my brain cells cannot fully digest what people have been saying.

I’d love to reply to each and every one of you but feel as tho I’d be here for a long time.

I’m not being rude I am just a bit thick I do not quite understand it all.

If everyone can work together with the same opinion and just mash it all into one post that would help me enormously.

Thanks for your replies

Long story short - go see a fitter, they will check that your clubs are right for you. If there are adjustments to be made, they can usually make them too - so long as the club is suitable for adjustment.

Edit - but the chances are, its not the clubs, its the man holding them

 

[sweaty sock]

Yeah long story short, the lie angles and offset are helping not hindering.

But, we dont really have consensus on why the specs are what they are...

 

[IanM]

Have you been sacrificing a goat before you go out? I think that's something you've overlooked

If you have a tendacy to slice, it will increase as the amount of loft of the club decreases. That's what I'm seeing in the opening post.

And as Bryson proves every week... physics is only part of the game.

 

[bobmac]

Am I on to something?

No.

If you can't hit a 6 iron properly, don't blame the 6 iron

 

[cliveb]

Notwithstanding all the comments about the theory (many of which go over my head), keep in mind that the tolerances of mass produced clubs is large enough that some of your lofts and lies could be way off the published specs.

If you're concerned about lie angles, the simple and practical solution is to have them checked and adjusted to suit your swing. (And then adjusted again when your swing changes...)

 

[Maninblack4612]

Notwithstanding all the comments about the theory (many of which go over my head), keep in mind that the tolerances of mass produced clubs is large enough that some of your lofts and lies could be way off the published specs.

If you're concerned about lie angles, the simple and practical solution is to have them checked and adjusted to suit your swing. (And then adjusted again when your swing changes...)

Long story short - go see a fitter, they will check that your clubs are right for you. If there are adjustments to be made, they can usually make them too - so long as the club is suitable for adjustment.

Edit - but the chances are, its not the clubs, its the man holding them

Some of the lie angles would possibly need adjusting by 3½° or more, depending on the OP's requirements. If these aren't forged clubs this could be a problem.

I still think that the manufacturer has taken the cheapest, easiest way out. I bet all Bryson's clubs have the same lie angle.

 

[SaintHacker]

I’ve read this thread back 3 times now and I have come to the conclusion that my brain cells cannot fully digest what people have been saying.

I’d love to reply to each and every one of you but feel as tho I’d be here for a long time.

I’m not being rude I am just a bit thick and I do not quite understand it all.

If everyone can work together with the same opinion and just mash it all into one post that would help me enormously.

Thanks for your replies

A bit difficult for everyone to have the same opinion? Maybe post up a video of your swing, then the more learned among us (Bob) will be able to see whats happening and offer some advice?

 

[jmf1488]

Some of the lie angles would possibly need adjusting by 3½° or more, depending on the OP's requirements. If these aren't forged clubs this could be a problem.

I still think that the manufacturer has taken the cheapest, easiest way out. I bet all Bryson's clubs have the same lie angle.

They havent.

"Non-Standard Lie Angles - One of the things Cobra discovered while working with Bryson DeChambeau (and we discovered during our testing) is that despite identical lengths and weights, golfers still swing ONE Length long irons faster than ONE Length short irons. You can probably chalk it up to that mental stuff I touched on earlier, but whatever the cause, it’s real, it’s repeatable, and it absolutely has implications where lie angles are concerned. As noted above, Cobra is already using the shaft to tune launch conditions. The consequence of that is that long iron shafts will bend a bit differently than middle iron shafts and short iron shafts. The way the dynamics of shaft work, we already see progressively less toe down (more upright impact lie) as shafts get shorter and clubhead speed slows. It’s the reason why many coaches and fitters advocate for flatter lie angles in wedges.To account for differing amounts of toe down, Cobra has implemented a lie angle progression with F8 ONE. The short irons have flatter lie angles than the mid irons, and the mid irons are flatter than the long irons. That may sound strange, but keep in mind that static measurements don’t often match their dynamic equivalents. What you need to take away from this is that Cobra is tuning lie angles such that when the dynamic forces (the bending and twisting of the shaft during the swing) are applied, the lie angles at impact are more consistent through the F8 ONE set."

 

[IanM]

How many perfect swings did Ben Hogan say he thought he made a round?

Maybe the OP makes slightly fewer?

 

[Maninblack4612]

They havent.

"Non-Standard Lie Angles - One of the things Cobra discovered while working with Bryson DeChambeau (and we discovered during our testing) is that despite identical lengths and weights, golfers still swing ONE Length long irons faster than ONE Length short irons. You can probably chalk it up to that mental stuff I touched on earlier, but whatever the cause, it’s real, it’s repeatable, and it absolutely has implications where lie angles are concerned. As noted above, Cobra is already using the shaft to tune launch conditions. The consequence of that is that long iron shafts will bend a bit differently than middle iron shafts and short iron shafts. The way the dynamics of shaft work, we already see progressively less toe down (more upright impact lie) as shafts get shorter and clubhead speed slows. It’s the reason why many coaches and fitters advocate for flatter lie angles in wedges.To account for differing amounts of toe down, Cobra has implemented a lie angle progression with F8 ONE. The short irons have flatter lie angles than the mid irons, and the mid irons are flatter than the long irons. That may sound strange, but keep in mind that static measurements don’t often match their dynamic equivalents. What you need to take away from this is that Cobra is tuning lie angles such that when the dynamic forces (the bending and twisting of the shaft during the swing) are applied, the lie angles at impact are more consistent through the F8 ONE set."

I bow to your superior information. Does this mean that each of our irons should be individually adjusted for lie angle? How important is it? In my opinion, not very. Even a mild feet above ball or feet below ball is likely to throw the lie angle out by a couple of degrees. The inconsistent way we swing the club will do likewise.

I got down to 5 handicap using irons which were likely 3° too upright - never knew about lie angles in those days. Tge fact is that, if hit properly, the club doesn't contact the turf until after the ball is hit so the effect of the toe or heel digging in is minimal.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I’ve read this thread back 3 times now and I have come to the conclusion that my brain cells cannot fully digest what people have been saying.

I’d love to reply to each and every one of you but feel as tho I’d be here for a long time.

I’m not being rude I am just a bit thick and I do not quite understand it all.

If everyone can work together with the same opinion and just mash it all into one post that would help me enormously.

Thanks for your replies

In short:

1. The effect of the lie angles on the longer clubs would give you the opposite problem from the one you've got, therefore that's not the problem.

2. Like the rest of us, the stronger the loft, the harder it is to hit it properly. Stronger lofts need higher club head speeds &, if you can't achieve this, what happens to you happens.

 

[jmf1488]

I bow to your superior information. Does this mean that each of our irons should be individually adjusted for lie angle? How important is it? In my opinion, not very. Even a mild feet above ball or feet below ball is likely to throw the lie angle out by a couple of degrees. The inconsistent way we swing the club will do likewise.

I got down to 5 handicap using irons which were likely 3° too upright - never knew about lie angles in those days. Tge fact is that, if hit properly, the club doesn't contact the turf until after the ball is hit so the effect of the toe or heel digging in is minimal.

I think its only relevant to the one length clubs. As they discovered people sub consciously swung longer irons faster and shorter irons slower so they needed to make adjustments to stop the clubs all going the same distance.

I am firmly in the camp that with the correct swing and you'll hit any club well. 80% of golfers though dont make it below 18. You'd imagine the target audience for someone who buys one length clubs are the people who don't swing the club very well anyway.

 

[jim8flog]

When it comes to lies angles a good comment from the fitter I last used -

"how often do you hit a ball on the grass off a truly flat lie?"

 

[Crow]

I played today with a mish-mash collection of irons from five different sets, 1930s, 1950s and 1960/70s.
Specs were all over the place but I still played okay golf for my handicap, just my stinky short game let me down as usual.

 

[fundy]

A bit difficult for everyone to have the same opinion? Maybe post up a video of your swing, then the more learned among us (Bob) will be able to see whats happening and offer some advice?

not sure thats possible lol

 

[evemccc]

When it comes to lies angles a good comment from the fitter I last used -

"how often do you hit a ball on the grass off a truly flat lie?"

I’m getting my lie angles checked on the eBay irons I bought two years ago…Why not? I have worked hard to shallow my swing to help reduce off-centre strikes, and though it’s been somewhat successful, the pro I go to (based on GC quad data) said it would only benefit me to get it corrected.

It’s relatively cheap and all pros can adjust loft and lie angles so why wouldn’t you?
EDIT: not been yet so can’t report on outcomes yet ?

 

[jim8flog]

I’m getting my lie angles checked on the eBay irons I bought two years ago…Why not? I have worked hard to shallow my swing to help reduce off-centre strikes, and though it’s been somewhat successful, the pro I go to (based on GC quad data) said it would only benefit me to get it corrected.

It’s relatively cheap and all pros can adjust loft and lie angles so why wouldn’t you?
EDIT: not been yet so can’t report on outcomes yet ?

Mainly because I have enough experience to lay a club on a hard surface and form an opinion about the lie and know how to check against the strike markings on the sole.

You are right 'cost is relative'.

 

[Bamberdele21]

If you have a tendacy to slice, it will increase as the amount of loft of the club decreases. That's what I'm seeing in the opening post.

Sounds reasonable ?

They havent.

golfers still swing ONE Length long irons faster than ONE Length short irons. You can probably chalk it up to that mental stuff I touched on earlier, but whatever the cause, it’s real, it’s repeatable, and it absolutely has implications where lie angles are concerned

I do this 100%. Subconsciously I think I do this because I want to get more distance and my 7, 6 and 5 irons generally travel the same distance so I’m always swinging faster the lower down I go.

So from your extremely clued up experience do you think I have a point in regards to the lie angle?

A bit difficult for everyone to have the same opinion? Maybe post up a video of your swing, then the more learned among us (Bob) will be able to see whats happening and offer some advice?

I couldn’t figure out how to upload a video file on here so this is the only route I could think of.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRghJK8v/

Cheers for the info / replies. Great read especially jmf1488