Air Shots

[Colin L]

=,the chap who refused to sign was taken before the committee to explain his actions.

... and, we hope, came out a little better clued up about at least one Rule.

 

[alisoncc]

One aspect of this thread is of particular interest. Yesterday in a 4BBB comp my partner in attempting to hit out of a bunker with a very difficult and unbalanced stance used her sand wedge to save herself falling after an air swing. The grounding was totally unintentional within the context of playing her stroke. If she hadn't use her club she would have gone A over T in the bottom of the bunker.

If the grounding was wholly unintentional does it still incur a two stroke penalty?

 

[bobmac]

One aspect of this thread is of particular interest. Yesterday in a 4BBB comp my partner in attempting to hit out of a bunker with a very difficult and unbalanced stance used her sand wedge to save herself falling after an air swing. The grounding was totally unintentional within the context of playing her stroke. If she hadn't use her club she would have gone A over T in the bottom of the bunker.

If the grounding was wholly unintentional does it still incur a two stroke penalty?

Without checking, I'd say if she used it to stop herself falling over then no penalty

 

[MashieNiblick]

One aspect of this thread is of particular interest. Yesterday in a 4BBB comp my partner in attempting to hit out of a bunker with a very difficult and unbalanced stance used her sand wedge to save herself falling after an air swing. The grounding was totally unintentional within the context of playing her stroke. If she hadn't use her club she would have gone A over T in the bottom of the bunker.

If the grounding was wholly unintentional does it still incur a two stroke penalty?

Without checking, I'd say if she used it to stop herself falling over then no penalty

Absolutely correct as usual Bob, even without checking.

Specific exception to Rule 13-4 - Ball in Hazard; Prohibited Actions

1. Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player (a) touches the ground or loose impediments in any hazard or water in a water hazard as a result of or to prevent falling,...

I have a vague recollecton this was brought in after Gary Player was penalised for using his club to stop himself falling when climbing into a steep bunker. Could be completely wrong on that though.

 

[CMAC]

One aspect of this thread is of particular interest. Yesterday in a 4BBB comp my partner in attempting to hit out of a bunker with a very difficult and unbalanced stance used her sand wedge to save herself falling after an air swing. The grounding was totally unintentional within the context of playing her stroke. If she hadn't use her club she would have gone A over T in the bottom of the bunker.

If the grounding was wholly unintentional does it still incur a two stroke penalty?

Without checking, I'd say if she used it to stop herself falling over then no penalty

well done Bob, I'd expect nothing less from a Professional.

I assume its the same if you drop your club in the sand accidentally?

 

[MashieNiblick]

well done Bob, I'd expect nothing less from a Professional.

I assume its the same if you drop your club in the sand accidentally?

I would say yes as there is no penalty for placing your clubs in a hazard. Exception cited above goes on to say

"...or (b) places his clubs in a hazard."

In addition Decision 13-4/21 Rake Thrown into Bunker Before Stroke, confirms that throwing a rake into the bunker is the same as placing it and I would assume the same would apply to a club whether thrown or dropped.

No specific decision as far as I can see on dropping a club though which surprises me as I would guess it isn't that unusual and would give rise to a question as the whether it was a breach of the Rule, so there may be other interpretations.

However those with short tempers and dodgy bunker technique will find it worth bearing in mind that the exception doesn't cover having a bash at the sand if you leave your ball in the bunker:

Decision 13-4/35 Hitting Sand in Bunker with Club After Failing to Extricate Ball

Also if you are tempted to have a little rest while you wait to play beware that you can't lean on your club in a hazard:

Decision 13-4/2 Leaning on Club in Hazard While Waiting to Play

2 stroke penalty or loss of hole in both those cases for breach of Rule. Ouch!

 

[duncan mackie]

I would say yes as there is no penalty for placing your clubs in a hazard.

the logic for this is that
1. there are some very large hazards out there and it doesn't make any sense to require a player to walk out to get a club, or place his bag when playing his shot etc
2. the process of grounding a club is associated with testing the surface of the hazard whilst placing, and definitely throwing, are not. leaning on it inherently tests the conditions of the hazard!

dropping a club is sufficiently covered under placing or throwing

 

[Leftie]

Am I right in thinking that old and infirm (Bob and myself for instance), OK or anyone, can use a club for support in getting in and out of a hazard without penalty as long as they are not "testing"?

 

[duncan mackie]

Am I right in thinking that old and infirm (Bob and myself for instance), OK or anyone, can use a club for support in getting in and out of a hazard without penalty as long as they are not "testing"?

yes

exception 1 to 13-4 includes 'to prevent falling' - but it has to be specifically for that. your reference on that would be Michelle Wie's attempt to persuade the RO's that this was the reason she grounded her club in a hazard - they didn't accept it!

 

[alisoncc]

Thanks for the replies guys. One of the courses I play occasionally has really deep "pot" bunkers, and there is no easy way in or out of them. So for us oldies being able to use a club without penalty to get to a ball will be invaluable knowledge. Thanks.

Probably need to be ultra careful as to how we do it though.

 

[Leftie]

Getting back to the original theme about air shots, I remember the time when we were held up by a group in front (on this occasion they were ladies but this is of no consequence ) who were in a heated discussion. They were obviously oblivious to the fact that they were delaying us so I walked up and asked what the problem was.

"The problem is" said Davina "that we are playing individual Stableford and Tabatha played an air shot at Petronella's ball. We don't know what, if any, penalty applies".

I just asked if we could play through .....

 

[bobmac]

Am I right in thinking that old and infirm (Bob and myself for instance), OK or anyone, can use a club for support in getting in and out of a hazard without penalty as long as they are not "testing"?

I wouldn't

 

[North Mimms]

Getting back to the original theme about air shots, I remember the time when we were held up by a group in front (on this occasion they were ladies but this is of no consequence ) who were in a heated discussion. They were obviously oblivious to the fact that they were delaying us so I walked up and asked what the problem was.

"The problem is" said Davina "that we are playing individual Stableford and Tabatha played an air shot at Petronella's ball. We don't know what, if any, penalty applies".

I just asked if we could play through .....

Love it!

 

[Karl102]

Didn't Phil take his 64 wedge and swing right under the ball on a really fluffy lie?!? Think it was last year! Shot deffo counted!

 

[Colin L]

The answer to Tabatha, Petronella and Davina (where did you get these names?) , by the way, is that Tabatha made a stroke at a wrong ball, incurred 2 penalty strokes and should have got on with playing her own ball instead of holding you up.

 

[Leftie]

Tabatha, Petronella and Davina (where did you get these names?)

Obviously the names were changed to protect the ladies' feelings.

(Shh. Don't let on but actually they were all called Doris, but that would have been a bit confusing in the telling of the story).