Advice for an interesting 'preferred lie' scenario

[Jono_3]

Hi all. Hoping for a definitive answer, preferably pointing to a rule or decision if possible.

An interesting issue arose during a winter league match today - naturally we were playing winter rules/preferred lies. Format was fourball betterball.

The opponent had chipped up to the front right edge and landed between the bunker and the green. The ball was clearly on the fairway and not on the semi green. In that position he could, feasibly, mark the ball, pick it up and play a preferred lie within 6 inches by placing the ball on the green and being no nearer the hole.

He asked before he did this but as none of us could answer he played a preferred lie keeping the ball 'through the green' and off the putting green.

So the question is this, can you move your ball onto the green as a preferred lie?

 

[brendy]

No.

 

[Jono_3]

No.

Can you build on that?

Appendix I 4b doesn't state the ball must be placed through the green for preferred lies. However 4a for 'lifting and cleaning' does...

 

[rosecott]

Can you build on that?

Appendix I 4b doesn't state the ball must be placed through the green for preferred lies. However 4a for 'lifting and cleaning' does...

Extract from the specimen rule:


"A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green."

 

[Jono_3]

Extract from the specimen rule:


"A ball lying on a closely mown area through the green (or specify a more restricted area, e.g., at the 6th hole) may be lifted, without penalty, and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g., six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard and not on a putting green."

That's spot on. Thanks. Is there a link to that specimen rule?

 

[Jono_3]

I found this:

Q. Can I automatically prefer the lie of my ball during winter?

Only when a Committee has introduced a Local Rule for preferred lies is a player entitled to prefer the lie of their ball. Simply saying “preferred lies in operation” or “winter rules apply” is inadequate; the Committee has to spell out the detail of the Local Rule so the player knows how to proceed correctly.

The recommended Local Rule for preferred lies is contained in Appendix 1, Part B, 4c of the Rules of Golf.
A player is entitled to prefer the lie of the ball when the ball lies on a closely-mown area through the green. A “closely-mown area” is any area of the course that is cut to fairway height or less and includes paths cut through the rough and the fringe/apron around the green. If the ball does not lie on a closely-mown area, e.g. the rough, the player cannot take a preferred lie under this specimen Local Rule.

That is from R&A (http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2013/December/Preferred-Lies.aspx)

Looks like he could have put it on the fringe

 

[brendy]

in theory he could have marked, cleaned and placed right on the edge of the fringe but not on the green.

 

[rosecott]

That's spot on. Thanks. Is there a link to that specimen rule?

It's in Appendix 1 of the rules.

 

[Jono_3]

It's in Appendix 1 of the rules.

Ah yes. I just had to scroll further down the page. Great help. Thanks

 

[BTatHome]

What is this "semi-green" that is mentioned in the OP?

.... normally good to use terms that are in the rules, as it stops any confusion

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Im guessing the fringe

 

[BTatHome]

Im guessing the fringe

Yes, I guessed that bit but then reread the original post and got confused as to whether the ball was on the fairway or fringe ... adding in a new word like semi-green doesn't really matters

 

[rosecott]

Yes, I guessed that bit but then reread the original post and got confused as to whether the ball was on the fairway or fringe ... adding in a new word like semi-green doesn't really matters

The only phrase that is relevant is "close-mown area" - you can forget the others.

 

[Jono_3]

What is this "semi-green" that is mentioned in the OP?

.... normally good to use terms that are in the rules, as it stops any confusion

Haha I think semi-green is pretty explanatory, although I appreciate it's apparently not a commonly used term.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Haha I think semi-green is pretty explanatory, although I appreciate it's apparently not a commonly used term.

Not on here or in the rules of golf it's not...

Seriously though - yes - I guess it is self-explanatory. The problem arises when you try and tie it into a rule as for rulings to be given detail and understanding of the scenario have to be precise - else the ruling can be wrong - and that won't help you as it can cause confusion and will more likely cause you problems or issues in the future.

 

[Jono_3]

Not on here or in the rules of golf it's not...

Seriously though - yes - I guess it is self-explanatory. The problem arises when you try and tie it into a rule as for rulings to be given detail and understanding of the scenario have to be precise - else the ruling can be wrong - and that won't help you as it can cause confusion and will more likely cause you problems or issues in the future.

Yea fair enough I'll bare it in mind. Although correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you will find the term 'fringe' in the rules of golf. As previously stated the term would be 'closely mown' area which we now know includes the "semi-green" haha

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Yea fair enough I'll bare it in mind. Although correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you will find the term 'fringe' in the rules of golf. As previously stated the term would be 'closely mown' area which we now know includes the "semi-green" haha

Oh I agree - one persons 'fringe' is that of a 'crew cut' - another's of a 'mop-top' (again - neither of which terms are defined in the rules of golf)

 

[Colin L]

Yea fair enough I'll bare it in mind. Although correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think you will find the term 'fringe' in the rules of golf. As previously stated the term would be 'closely mown' area which we now know includes the "semi-green" haha

Or perhaps, the “apron” which is mentioned in the Rules.

 

[Jono_3]

Or perhaps, the “apron” which is mentioned in the Rules.

haha that also. So where in the rule book will I find that? I didn't think there were any terms for it in the rules...

 

[Colin L]

haha that also. So where in the rule book will I find that? I didn't think there were any terms for it in the rules...

Decision 33-8/33: Local Rule Prohibiting Dropping on Apron When Ball on Wrong Putting Green

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!decision-33,d33-8-33