Advantages of blades - Feel?

[evemccc]

I know I am nowhere near good enough to think about bladed irons, but I’m curious

I’ve read countless times how blades demand consistent strike precision as they are unforgiving (disadvantage), but that they are ‘workable’ and produce ‘feel’ for golfers (as their main advantages)

Workability refers to the ease with which players can shape the ball at ease with draws and fades?

What about ‘feel’? We all know when we’ve flushed a shot, and when somethings come out of the heel/toe/thinned etc

But the ‘feel’ we get from each shot does not allow us to react to that shot instantly and to make adjustments based on the feel — as the ball is clearly only on the club face for a nanosecond….so what exactly is ‘feel’ and why is it so good, if it only allows us to react to the next shot.

Why are blades the choice for elite / scratch golfers?

 

[sweaty sock]

Pretty.

Higher lofts create more consistent spin so more consistent distances (on good strikes), less offset protects against a hook (a little). Normally thinner soles can improve playability from rough/tight lies.

Higher centre of gravity can also help lower flight (slightly) and increase spin.

All of this could be put into a cavity back, but currently manufacturers seem to stick to the current marketing strategy.

Does explain why t100 / Ap2 are so popular on tour, cabity back that still produces the advantages of a blade...

 

[sweaty sock]

I would also add, of the 7 or 8 + handicap players at our club, only one plays a true blade.

The others play, titliest AP3, ping i500, tm p7mc, srixon 785, and one who has a blended set with blades in 8 - pw

So clearly blades are still pretty rare nowadays

 

[Junior]

I've played both cavity back and blades in recent years. Blades being z965's and more recently the Wilsons FG Tours.

I didn't notice any real difference in my scores and performance wise , the distances control in the short irons was much better and I like the three quarter type shots I could play into the wind. The srixons in particular felt amazing and I wish I'd never sold them.

The drop off in the longer irons on mis hits was huge though and due to a dip in form, I've gone back to my Callaways. To answer the OP, the reason the low low guys play blades is that they don't mis hit them very often and they offer better workability than cavity back type clubs.

 

[Jimaroid]

Why are blades the choice for elite / scratch golfers?

They’re not. At least not amongst the elites I know locally. There aren’t many tour pros using true blades either. All of the better players are using muscle or small cavity backs of some variation because they perform better.

Blade feel is an old golfers tale that hasn’t kept up with modern manufacturing technology. It stems from when clubs started being mass produced in cast steel (which is brittle with unaligned grain) versus forged steel (malleable with aligned grain).

Nowadays you can get forged thin faced cavity backed irons that “feel better” than old forged blades. Modern cast steels are also much better than they used to be, material science is just a lot better than it used to be. The myths haven’t kept up with technology.

Blades are unequivocally prettier in every way. I have a set of mizuno blades that occasionally see the light of day. They’re beautiful but you don’t know pain until you’ve thinned a 4 iron 220 yards on a frosty January morning. Soft, my arse.

 

[evemccc]

Good answers so far

Within the Mizuno range, would the MP20 MMC be described as a small cavity-blade, MP20 HMB obvs muscle-back blades, and how would these compare to the JPX 921 Tour, which I think is more an elite players small cavity?

 

[sweaty sock]

Mp20 mmc = small cavity with perimeter weighting
MP20 HMB = Hollow players distance iron
JPX 921 Tour = Small cavity

 

[sweaty sock]

They’re not. At least not amongst the elites I know locally. There aren’t many tour pros using true blades either. All of the better players are using muscle or small cavity backs of some variation because they perform better.

Blade feel is an old golfers tale that hasn’t kept up with modern manufacturing technology. It stems from when clubs started being mass produced in cast steel (which is brittle with unaligned grain) versus forged steel (malleable with aligned grain).

Nowadays you can get forged thin faced cavity backed irons that “feel better” than old forged blades. Modern cast steels are also much better than they used to be, material science is just a lot better than it used to be. The myths haven’t kept up with technology.

Blades are unequivocally prettier in every way. I have a set of mizuno blades that occasionally see the light of day. They’re beautiful but you don’t know pain until you’ve thinned a 4 iron 220 yards on a frosty January morning. Soft, my arse.

I always chuckle when the 'forged feels better' players turn up with vokey wedges...!

 

[Jimaroid]

Within the Mizuno range, would the MP20 MMC be described as a small cavity-blade, MP20 HMB obvs muscle-back blades, and how would these compare to the JPX 921 Tour, which I think is more an elite players small cavity?

I've not kept up to date with Mizuno but I do have sets of both MP and JPX irons from within the last few years.

I believe The MP20 MMC is a filled cavity forged iron, maybe marketed as a muscle insert I think, it's effectively a blade in size and looks. The JPX 921 Tour is pretty much the best example of a forged cavity iron. If you put them side by side in store I think you'd find the headsize on the JPX is slightly larger as it's a lighter alloy than what they use in the MP range; larger is considered more forgiving.

All the manufacturers are moving to mixed material production, that's where the technology advances are. It's not really about blades versus cavities or forged versus cast any more. The best performing irons are a combination of the best aspects of both forged blades and cast cavities welded together as one club head. Whilst they generally perform better it makes direct comparisons nigh on impossible.

Although the technology involved in these things is genuine and evidence based, making advancements over what came before, never ever believe the marketing. Just find the irons that work for you.

 

[Dando]

i used blades for 30 years. started off with Ben Sayers Ray Floyd signature blades then bought Mizuno TP Originals and then Mizuno Pro Originals.

now i use Srixon Z585's as they were the best at my fitting - i had set my heart on either the Cobra or Callaway blades but they were awful.

the Srixons are forged so still soft but the massive plus over my old blades is that mishits aren't 20 or 30 yards short!

 

[harpo_72]

I have a mixed bag of mp20 from 7 iron up and 6 and 5 hmb.
Really depends on your view as to what the club should deliver.
For me, I use my 7 iron up for my short game.. so like a bit of feel or feedback.
The 5 and 6 irons are just about getting distance … they feel great as well, but on the 3/4 and chip shots they offer no return.
I think if I was selecting again I might have drifted toward a cavity back for forgiveness. The MMC though was too strong and doesn’t suit my eye, maybe ping i210 or TM cavity backs , but shaft options were poor. The hollow headed stuff , is great and very pretty but gives the flier .. the blade gives the disappointingly short shot as a reward for poor striking. But saying that today’s blades are miles away from a real blade of 10 years or more ago. They let you get away with some utter rubbish…
Currently I am using some old ping e irons, the yardages are the same as my Mizuno set and they let the the rubbish go with minimum punishment and I use them in competition and the Mizunos for practice.

 

[Jimaroid]

I always chuckle when the 'forged feels better' players turn up with vokey wedges...!

Indeed. There's a reasonable argument or trade off to say cast steel wedges are better, hardness is a good thing if you want grooves that survive more than a couple of weeks' use. Nothing to do with performance it's a simple durability problem.

 

[patricks148]

I had used mizuno my 4 blades for the last 6 years and before that MP62 though I hit them well, comp to my new GI irons it's night and day results wise. I'd be hitting a Sunday best shot with the5 iron in blades, comp to an average shot with a 7 iron now. I enjoyed the blades, the look and felt great off the face, it was easy to work the ball and the thiner and sharper leading edge made any lie look hitable. My handicap has also dropped 2 shots this season. Tbh you don't see blades hit by any of the young guns at ours all the boys that are plus figures use CB or Gi clubs.

 

[Golfnut1957]

Not all blades are born equal, some are more forgiving than others.

I have happily owned and played the Wilson Staff Model. Wilson FG 62, Mizuno MP 4, 69 & 68, Cleveland TA1, Hogan FT Worth 15. Hogan Apex Anniversary model & Callaway Apex mb.
As I understand it, the key with blades is where the manufacture places the CG. Generally speaking, Mizuno and Wilson place it lower which aids launch, while TM and Callaway put it higher, which will increase workability but make them less forgiving. These are all, in the main, barely perceptible traits.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. The FG62 and Hogan Anniversary were impossible to hit. The MP4 and Staff Model as easy as any cavity back out there, shorter because of the weaker lofts but not that short, and both had a very high trajectory. The Apex mb were somewhere in between, but were also the most beautiful irons I have ever owned.

Why don't more people play blades? In my opinion, it is more about perception than ability. If enough people tell you that you can't do something, then you will probably believe them, but if you haven't tried them, how do you know?

I once put a set of Ping G25 in the bag, they were amazing, every shot felt amazing, but it didn't take long to realise that while every shot felt amazing in reality it was the poor shots being masked. My eureka moment was a PW on the 12th. I hit the shot really well, only to watch it come up short and right. I hadn't stuck a good shot at all, it just felt as if I had. I immediately went back to my TA 2's and shot 42 points the next day, anecdotal I know, but they work for me.

If you want a blade but need the comfort of a cavity, try the Miura 501. A smaller head than many blades, a cavity of sorts, as forgiving as your average club, but plenty of feedback. They are incredibly long. Try some, you can thank me later.

 

[Golfnut1957]

I always chuckle when the 'forged feels better' players turn up with vokey wedges...!

I don't know about forged feels better or even if blades feel better than cavities. As I allude to in the post above, to me the design of the more forgiving clubs is such that they all either feel dead, hello Titleist AP3, or every shot feels great. Whereas with a blade the majority of shots feel average or even terrible, but then you flush one out of the middle and the feeling is other wordly.

 

[Ethan]

i used blades for 30 years. started off with Ben Sayers Ray Floyd signature blades then bought Mizuno TP Originals and then Mizuno Pro Originals.

now i use Srixon Z585's as they were the best at my fitting - i had set my heart on either the Cobra or Callaway blades but they were awful.

the Srixons are forged so still soft but the massive plus over my old blades is that mishits aren't 20 or 30 yards short!

Very similar for me.

My first good set of clubs were a set of forged blades, Mizuno Pro Originals, in the late 80s, later followed by other blades for a number of years, probably 7 or 8 sets over the years, including MacGregor, Wilson, Titleist and most recently Mizuno MP4s. I have since moved to players cavity/players distance mixed sets (currently Srixon ZX585/785).

I still love blades, the clean looks, thin top line, lack of offset and the crisp feel of a good shot, and I try them pretty often. But hitting a Ben Hogan Apzes 2 iron off a fairway was a hell of a shot.

Modern blades are much easier to hit than old blades. The tech has improved and weighting of the club and matching to the shaft is much better nowadays.

I think the mixed set is the happy middle ground. Get some blades from 7 iron down, and something more forgiving, but compatible, in the longer clubs.

 

[Ethan]

Oh, seen the Miura Nicklaus set recently issued (and sold out) as a limited set? Beautiful.

 

[harpo_72]

I don't know about forged feels better or even if blades feel better than cavities. As I allude to in the post above, to me the design of the more forgiving clubs is such that they all either feel dead, hello Titleist AP3, or every shot feels great. Whereas with a blade the majority of shots feel average or even terrible, but then you flush one out of the middle and the feeling is other wordly.

That’s exactly it.
Cast wedges do offer feel, it’s just GI irons don’t because hide poor striking or tune the feedback out, a vokey doesn’t .
Also look at the casting material specs, GI are using some pretty hard metals for durability but they are using really clever techniques to tune in the sensation of softness . ( pretty sure some have the sensation of a lost tuning weight in their iron - to say it was a bit brittle feeling)
At the end of the day you make your choices based on your abilities and what you want from the game.
I chose blades because I was pleasantly surprised I could hit them relatively consistently, but I play minor GI in competition because I don’t want to be disadvantaged .

 

[tugglesf239]

I love playing blades and have owned a few sets, namely the Cobra AMP forged, cobra king MB and the Srixon 965’s (which were stunning in both looks and feel)

In summer months i used to hit them as good, if not better than other CB’s I’ve owned. However it was always a very different story in the wetter months. I really struggled to get good contact with the ball and would Regularly fat it, sending huge hamburgers flying down the fairway.

It all boiled down to sole width for me. They are so thin on the bottom with very little help or bounce meaning they just cut through the turf (as you would expect them to do by design)

Apart from that they are as easy to hit as most other clubs imo.

If I was fortunate enough to be a member of a links or heathland course I may have kept using them tbh.

Just no good (for me) on wet moorland / parkland courses.

As a compromise now I’ve been using some Vega VC01’s which are as forgiving as anything with the lovely solid / dull feel you would expect from Japanese forged irons.

 

[Deleted member 29109]

The problem with using blades for most people it the sole. They generally don't have the width and bounce most golfers need.

Having played MP33s and Macgregor 1050s in the past on a course that was rock hard in summer. They were a joy to hit. I now play on a much softer course, and have a swing that promotes a more shallow contact and almost no divot. The blades are unsuited for me now.

I've got a set of G400s. Not very pretty, but very easy to hit. And I can tell which part of the face I've used from the sound and feel. The difficulty with GI for me is controlling the flight. I'm going to look at moving to something like a T200/P790 next year.