Adjusting foliage

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Skypilot

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When playing a friendly the other day my I found my ball under a long individual strand of bramble.
The bramble wasn't touching the ball but was arced over it. (It was about 6 foot long)
I gently raised the trailing end with my club and moved it sideways so it was draped over another bramble enabling me to get a swing on the ball.
Is this allowed under the rules?
 

duncan mackie

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No it isn't.

Rule 13-2 covers it.

Relevant parts
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:

the position or lie of his ball,the area of his intended*stance
*or swing,his*line of play*or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the*hole, orthe area in which he is to drop or place a ball,

by any of the following actions:

pressing a club on the ground,moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed...
 

GaryK

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Oops, seems that I broke the rules of golf several times today. Luckily it was not a comp and I was playing on my own.
Should I call foul and report myself to the committee? :rofl:
 

rulie

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Oops, seems that I broke the rules of golf several times today. Luckily it was not a comp and I was playing on my own.
Should I call foul and report myself to the committee? :rofl:
Just respect the Rules, whether by yourself or in a comp.
 
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No it isn't.

Rule 13-2 covers it.

Relevant parts
A player must not improve or allow to be improved:

the position or lie of his ball,the area of his intended*stance
*or swing,his*line of play*or a reasonable extension of that line beyond the*hole, orthe area in which he is to drop or place a ball,

by any of the following actions:

pressing a club on the ground,moving, bending or breaking anything growing or fixed...
Newbie question, from someone who doesn't play in comps:

I've wondered about the times my ball is in long-ish rough. If I rest (not press) the club on the ground behind the ball at address, inevitably some of the long stuff gets a bit squashed. Is that ok, or, in this circumstance should I hover the club as I would in a bunker?

Thanks
 

rulefan

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Newbie question, from someone who doesn't play in comps:

I've wondered about the times my ball is in long-ish rough. If I rest (not press) the club on the ground behind the ball at address, inevitably some of the long stuff gets a bit squashed. Is that ok, or, in this circumstance should I hover the club as I would in a bunker?

Thanks
The rule (13-2) permits you to 'lightly' ground your club (ie simply resting under its own weight) but you must not press it down.
However, in long grass, simply letting it rest may cause the ball to move. I would suggest that it would be sensible to hover if there is any chance of the ball moving.
 
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From the title of the thread I thought this might be about some form of clothing malfunction.

But to OP - also be careful about practice swings when in long grass or close to such as hedges as it is easy to actually be thought of as clearing long grass, leaves and other such nature-connected stuff out of the line of your backswing, and that can get most dubious...
 

duncan mackie

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Newbie question, from someone who doesn't play in comps:

I've wondered about the times my ball is in long-ish rough. If I rest (not press) the club on the ground behind the ball at address, inevitably some of the long stuff gets a bit squashed. Is that ok, or, in this circumstance should I hover the club as I would in a bunker?

Thanks
Rulefan has given a full response already, but I would just add that it's good practice when getting set to play from such situations to make it obvious that the club is resting under its own weight if you aren't hovering it. An 'open handed' grip makes this clear to any casual (or more interested) observers!
 

azazel

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On a related note, how far can you go in searching for a ball? My group let a game behind us through on Saturday and one of that group had hit their ball into a patch of waist-high ferns. He seemed to have a good idea where it went in and so proceeded to stamp about in that area until he found the ball, which he could now conveniently swing at due to the carnage left by his efforts in searching. Leaving aside the question about when he first saw the ball (ie did he know fine where it was but continued to "look" for it just to clear the area - I was on the opposite side of the fairway so couldn't say for sure), is there a limit to how vigorously you can search for a ball? To be honest, I was half expecting a sycthe to appear from his bag at one point!
 

duncan mackie

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On a related note, how far can you go in searching for a ball? My group let a game behind us through on Saturday and one of that group had hit their ball into a patch of waist-high ferns. He seemed to have a good idea where it went in and so proceeded to stamp about in that area until he found the ball, which he could now conveniently swing at due to the carnage left by his efforts in searching. Leaving aside the question about when he first saw the ball (ie did he know fine where it was but continued to "look" for it just to clear the area - I was on the opposite side of the fairway so couldn't say for sure), is there a limit to how vigorously you can search for a ball? To be honest, I was half expecting a sycthe to appear from his bag at one point!
Thus is what the rules say...

In searching for his ball anywhere on the*course
, the player may touch or bend long grass, rushes, bushes, whins, heather or the like, but only to the extent necessary to find or identify the ball, provided that this does not improve the lie of the ball, the area of his intended*stance
*or swing or his*line of play;...

I does sound as if your player was in clear breach of this!
 
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Thus is what the rules say...

In searching for his ball anywhere on the*course
, the player may touch or bend long grass, rushes, bushes, whins, heather or the like, but only to the extent necessary to find or identify the ball, provided that this does not improve the lie of the ball, the area of his intended*stance
*or swing or his*line of play;...

I does sound as if your player was in clear breach of this!
...and if in his stamping down and 'sweeping' of the long grass he moves or stands on his ball - he is in breach of Rule 18-2a, incurring a penalty of one stroke.

But I have a feeling that that rule might be getting modified with the 2019 rules changes.
 

duncan mackie

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...and if in his stamping down and 'sweeping' of the long grass he moves or stands on his ball - he is in breach of Rule 18-2a, incurring a penalty of one stroke.

But I have a feeling that that rule might be getting modified with the 2019 rules changes.
The rules around searching have been relaxed in a number of areas but contain a catchall reasonableness.

Yes, accidentally touching or moving your ball when searching will no longer be a penalty
 

rulefan

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This is what he is allowed to do from next year.

7.1 How to Fairly Search for Ball
a. Player May Take Reasonable Actions to Find and Identify Ball

A player is responsible for finding his or her ball in play after each stroke.

The player may fairly search for the ball by taking reasonable actions to find and identify it, such as:
• Moving sand and water, and
• Moving or bending grass, bushes, tree branches and other growing or attached natural objects, and also breaking such objects, but only if such breaking is a result of other reasonable actions taken to find or identify the ball.

If taking such reasonable actions as part of a fair search improves the conditions affecting the stroke:
• There is no penalty under Rule 8.1a if the improvement results from a fair search.
• But if the improvement results from actions that exceeded what was reasonable for a fair search, the player gets the general penalty for breach of Rule 8.1a.

In trying to find and identify the ball, the player may remove loose impediments as allowed in Rule 15.1 and may remove movable obstructions as allowed in Rule 15.2.
 

clubchamp98

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While I’m here just a quick one .
my mate hooked his ball left and was 2” inbounds.
When he had his practice swing he removed two leaves off a tree that was not on the course.
We didn’t know the rule, it was only a knock , but can you be penalised for hitting something that’s not on the course.
 

rulefan

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13-2/19

Improving Area of Intended Swing by Moving Growing or Fixed Object Situated Out of Bounds

Q.A young tree or a fixed artificial object situated out of bounds interferes with a player's swing. May the player move, bend or break the tree or fixed artificial object without penalty?

A.No. Such action would be a breach of Rule 13-2.



However,
it is very unlikely that only knocking off two leaves would cause the branch to move sufficiently to change the effect on your swing path. Unless the leaves were large and their removal took them out of the swing path.

13-2/.05

Examples of changes that are unlikely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:

  • accidentally knocks down several leaves from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but there are still so many leaves or branches remaining that the area of intended swing has not been materially affected;

Examples of changes that are likely to create such a potential advantage are if a player:


  • accidentally knocks down a single leaf from a tree in his area of intended swing with a practice swing, but, as this was one of very few leaves that might either interfere with his swing or fall and thereby distract him, the area of intended swing has been materially affected;
 
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While I’m here just a quick one .
my mate hooked his ball left and was 2” inbounds.
When he had his practice swing he removed two leaves off a tree that was not on the course.
We didn’t know the rule, it was only a knock , but can you be penalised for hitting something that’s not on the course.
Decision 13/2-19 indicates you can't bend/break/move a tree which is OOB to improve your lie. So in your case, it falls back to the arguement whether the "2 leaves" was actually an improvement or not? (ie same argument as if tree was in bounds.)
 
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