Adjustable driver loft and affect on spin

[woody69]

I put this in another thread, but it was either overlooked or missed, so would appreciate some opinions...

I have a Callaway X-Hot driver 10.5 regular shaft. If I adjust it to be closed it increases the loft by 1 degree to 11.5. When I do this, my drives "tend" to be a bit straighter, but probably max out around 200-210. I assume though that by increasing the loft I am actually increasing the spin? Would I have more luck with actually adjusting the face to drop the loft to 9.5 in terms of distance as it's like to create less spin? I assume however this will ensure for a considerably lower ball flight (which is one of my weaknesses tbh)


I had a Trackman session at the start of this summer and my numbers on AoA were fairly consistent around -3. Obviously meaning I was hitting down, rather than up but I couldn't work out in the short session how I could actually improve that. This combined with a lower loft made for a very low ball flight and a loss of distance. I have no idea what the spin rate was.

 

[Maninblack4612]

More loft = more spin, no doubt about this. A less lofted club hit on the up can achieve the same launch angle with less spin. So can my SLDR!

 

[bobmac]

Where is your ball positioned in relation to your feet?

 

[mashleyR7]

Are you saying that can't have the driver set to draw without lowering the degree to 10.5 or lower? I thought you can. I've bought this driver last week but not played with it properly yet.

 

[pendodave]

There's a crossfield video on this somewhere. I'm sure you can track it down.

I think the essence of it is that you need to match your aoa with the dynamic loft you present to minimise spin. The problem is that, as you have found, if you have a negative or very shallow aoa this means your low spinning shot is also low which is not helpful.

Crossfield suggests that rather than tinkering with shafts you modify your swing to change impact. If you want to do this I think you would find it helpful to book a session with some sort of launch monitor, otherwise it will be hard to identify exactly which parameters are changing. I think this idea was explored in the recent 'how shameful is your distance' thread.

Coincidently. Three of us had an impromptu flightscope hack last night. It was fascinating. If you have a good instructor and are comfortable with the whole fixing by numbers ethos then I'm sure it would be a better route than trial and error.

 

[garyinderry]

as bob is alluding to. if you are hitting down on your driver, its highly likely that you have the ball teed up too far back in your stance. tee the ball further forward and chances are you will catch the ball on the upswing and produce a positive AOA.

changing you driver by a degree here and there by opening up the face does very little in all honesty.

 

[woody69]

Where is your ball positioned in relation to your feet?

as bob is alluding to. if you are hitting down on your driver, its highly likely that you have the ball teed up too far back in your stance. tee the ball further forward and chances are you will catch the ball on the upswing and produce a positive AOA.

changing you driver by a degree here and there by opening up the face does very little in all honesty.

I always tee the ball pretty much in line with my left heel. I have even started lining the club up 6 inches or so behind the ball, opening my left foot, but keeping my heel fairly still and stepping to the right with my right foot. The ball is definitely in the "right" place and not too far back, but I still think my AoA is negative (although it has been a while and I have implemented some changes, so perhaps it isn't as bad as I think)

 

[woody69]

There's a crossfield video on this somewhere. I'm sure you can track it down.

I think the essence of it is that you need to match your aoa with the dynamic loft you present to minimise spin. The problem is that, as you have found, if you have a negative or very shallow aoa this means your low spinning shot is also low which is not helpful.

Crossfield suggests that rather than tinkering with shafts you modify your swing to change impact. If you want to do this I think you would find it helpful to book a session with some sort of launch monitor, otherwise it will be hard to identify exactly which parameters are changing. I think this idea was explored in the recent 'how shameful is your distance' thread.

Coincidently. Three of us had an impromptu flightscope hack last night. It was fascinating. If you have a good instructor and are comfortable with the whole fixing by numbers ethos then I'm sure it would be a better route than trial and error.

I have seen the video and it's helpful to understand, but he doesn't explain how he is able to so freely change his AoA so as an amateur without the access to a machine that can tell me if I'm actually doing anything to it, it's all about trial and error unfortunately.

 

[woody69]

Are you saying that can't have the driver set to draw without lowering the degree to 10.5 or lower? I thought you can. I've bought this driver last week but not played with it properly yet.

I don't believe you can, but perhaps I am wrong. I thought the options only allowed for 3 different face settings, (S) neutral, i.e. 10.5*, (O) - Open, face angle open by 2.5* causing effective loft drop to 9.5* and (C) closed, face angle closed by 1.5* and effective loft increased by 1 degree to 11.5

I think the X2 Hot allows both to be adjusted without affecting the other, but not the X-hot 1.

 

[garyinderry]

I always tee the ball pretty much in line with my left heel. I have even started lining the club up 6 inches or so behind the ball, opening my left foot, but keeping my heel fairly still and stepping to the right with my right foot. The ball is definitely in the "right" place and not too far back, but I still think my AoA is negative (although it has been a while and I have implemented some changes, so perhaps it isn't as bad as I think)

Most likely it still isn't far enough forward. If you are hitting down with it well forward it has to be a choppy out to in swing.

Please make a video or even get someone to take a picture of yourself in set up.

 

[One Planer]

More loft = more spin, no doubt about this. A less lofted club hit on the up can achieve the same launch angle with less spin. So can my SLDR!

I don't get that.Not saying you're wrong, but.

Are you saying if I were to hit both a 9.5° and a 12° driver with the same +1° AoA, the 12° will spin more?

If so, I'd probably disagree.

 

[Maninblack4612]

I don't get that.Not saying you're wrong, but.

Are you saying if I were to hit both a 9.5° and a 12° driver with the same +1° AoA, the 12° will spin more?

If so, I'd probably disagree.

The higher the loft the more the backspin. So a 9 iron imparts more backspin than a 5 iron & a 12° driver imparts more than a 9°. Simple physics proves that.

 

[One Planer]

The higher the loft the more the backspin. So a 9 iron imparts more backspin than a 5 iron & a 12° driver imparts more than a 9°. Simple physics proves that.

Not really a relivant example.

While true a 9 iron has more loft, it also has a more upright shaft meaning it's struck with a steep angle of attack. By comparison a 5 iron has a much flatter lie and is struck with a much shallower AoA. Still negative, but not by any where near the same amount as a 9 iron.

If were talking simple physics, you cannot have 2 wildly differing variables (5 and 9 iron) as, by design, the are used differently.


If you were to take two drivers. Same shaft, same head type, same robot swinging the club. One having a 9.5° loft and the other 12° and both being hit with the same 1° +AoA, I would bet there wouldn't be a massive difference in spin, but there would be a difference in launch angle, purely because of the increased loft (2.5°) between the two heads.

Again, I'm happy to be proved wrong, but given the exact same impact conditions, I cannot understand how there can be a difference in spin. Launch angle yes. Spin, I'm not convinced.

 

[woody69]

Most likely it still isn't far enough forward. If you are hitting down with it well forward it has to be a choppy out to in swing.

Please make a video or even get someone to take a picture of yourself in set up.

According to the Trackman numbers, the club path is positive 3 degrees, which as far as I know indicates a in-to-out swing. I don't know, perhaps I need another go on a machine to see if my numbers have changed much.

I'm purely making an assumption that the ball could end up with a very low flight because my AoA is still negative but perhaps the reason I'm not getting much distance with the club at 12* is because I now am hitting up more often and the increased spin is causing a problem and lowering the loft will actually produce favourable results.

 

[Foxholer]

I don't get that.Not saying you're wrong, but.

Are you saying if I were to hit both a 9.5° and a 12° driver with the same +1° AoA, the 12° will spin more?

If so, I'd probably disagree.

It's absolutely correct!

A 60* pitching wedge produces a lot more spin than a 19-21* 3/4 iron!

As for the OP's question...

Closing the face 1.5* means you have have to open it by the same amount when you hit the ball - effectively increasing the loft (by 0.9*).

So if you want the same launch/spin then you would need to lower the loft by a compensating amount.

As others have posted, that's not a huge adjustment compared to the one that changing the CofG can make or, even better, adjusting your AofA so that you are hitting upon the ball - Joe Miller hits 10/11* up!

 

[bobmac]

If the ball is well forward, that would suggest you are getting too far ahead of the ball at impact.
Try this drill below. It's designed to stop too much lateral slide on the downswing and keeps the weight on the INSIDE of your front foot at the end of the swing. I suspect your weight is on the outside of your foot.

[video=youtube;CplahOxJmsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CplahOxJmsA&index=23&list=PL7Uf2W3sfvqYBJ3OUldKvQT7ZWYEmPOyW[/video]

 

[One Planer]

It's absolutely correct!

A 60* pitching wedge produces a lot more spin than a 19-21* 3/4 iron!

#13

 

[woody69]

If the ball is well forward, that would suggest you are getting too far ahead of the ball at impact.
Try this drill below. It's designed to stop too much lateral slide on the downswing and keeps the weight on the INSIDE of your front foot at the end of the swing. I suspect your weight is on the outside of your foot.

TBH I suspect that is quite likely the main fault. I try to tilt away in an effort to combat this, but this feels very unnatural and I occasionally feel myself inadvertently straightening up.

I'll give the drill a go and see if there are any improvements! Cheers bob.

 

[Foxholer]

#13

There's certainly not 40* difference though is there!

I believe Trackman actually calls the relevant stat (Dynamic Loft - AofA) Spin Loft!

 

[One Planer]

There's certainly not 40* difference though is there!

I believe Trackman actually calls the relevant stat (Dynamic Loft - AofA) Spin Loft!

I agree but, as I say, it's not a like-for-like comparison.

It would be like saying my 58° wedge spins more than my 3 iron.