Ad Hoc Qualifiers

[Old Skier]

I appreciate that many will have views on this but I need to deal in facts so if anyone can point me at the relevant answer it would be appreciated as I am going to a main committee meeting this week.

Had a couple of instances where committee members have rocked up with half a dozen or so in a group and decided to have a quailfyi comp. I know the people involved and don't suspect anything underhand but I was fairly certain that competitions should be either in the diary or advertised in the club before an event can take place. Official advice and knowledge would be appreciated.

All other terms of the comp including signing in were completed.

 

[DCB]

Interesting. Just thinking about the statement in the CONGU manual about club members having qualifying comps available ... this situation only has the qualifying comp available for that small specific group .... Without trawling thru the manual, I'd say that they were incorrect in doing this. Why not put in a supplementary card ??

 

[Old Skier]

Interesting. Just thinking about the statement in the CONGU manual about club members having qualifying comps available ... this situation only has the qualifying comp available for that small specific group .... Without trawling thru the manual, I'd say that they were incorrect in doing this. Why not put in a supplementary card ??

We have alternative weekends with either Sunday or Saturday qualifiers and changing between medal and stableford.

 

[Deleted member 16999]

We have alternative weekends with either Sunday or Saturday qualifiers and changing between medal and stableford.

So they are all set up on the computer etc?

 

[duncan mackie]

As long as all the normal terms of competition were met, I don't believe there is any requirement to advertise a competition, nor any that require any particular timeframe.
The obvious parallel would be if all the group playing signed in for supplemental cards...at which point I suspect CONGU would only be concerned if this was being done to circumvent any cat 1 restrictions.
That it's a 'comp' is a red herring from the club perspective - swindles are comps.

 

[rulefan]

CONGU recognises affiliated clubs and thereby the authorised committee of the club, as the body responsible for the management of the handicap system withing that club. The handicap committee must satisfy certain conditions which are set out in the CONGU manual (including being appointed by the club committee) . IMO this ad hoc committee manifestly does not, so therefore has no authority to run qualifiers.

Of course, the club could authorise the group to form a formal competition committee to run the competitions but maintaining the handicap committee's authority over the handicapping aspects.
Many clubs will have such and arrangement for 'internal sections' (eg seniors. rabbits etc).

Clubs though, should be aware that such arrangements may not go down well in the club generally. There may be comments re perceived exclusivity or collusion etc.

 

[Old Skier]

So they are all set up on the computer etc?

Yes because a member of the group has access. Everything appears above board it is just the ad hoc nature of this. There was a large group out front, including me, who, if they new a qualifier was being played, would have signed up.

 

[Colin L]

I have the same thought as DCB and suggest your members could do with a little refresher on submitting supplementary scores - both those who formed this competition and the others like you who would have "signed up" had you known a qualifier was being played. What was stopping you from signing up to return a supplementary? You could do this every time you play.

 

[rulefan]

The difference between a supplementary is that you are only playing yourself as opposed to a decent field and the prospect of a favourable CSS.
Personally, I seem to be more relaxed with a supplementary.

 

[Old Skier]

I have the same thought as DCB and suggest your members could do with a little refresher on submitting supplementary scores - both those who formed this competition and the others like you who would have "signed up" had you known a qualifier was being played. What was stopping you from signing up to return a supplementary? You could do this every time you play.

No need for me to do supplementary cards really as I do well over 30 qualifiers a year at a number of courses as well as my own. My reason for joined in the comp with I suspect the majority who were out before would be to increase the field size as our men's section continuely complain about small field sizes.

 

[rosecott]

What would the club do about it if there were no committee members in the group. The fact that one of the group has access to the competition/handicapping software is a bit of a red herring. I would suggest that the said committee members have not been authorised by the Club Committee to run qualifiers in such a way. From the CONGU manual:

The Handicap Committee must

7.2 Maintain a record, manually or by computer, in which the names of competitors, on the day of the competition, must be entered prior to competing in a Qualifying Competition at the club.

7.3 Ensure, so far as possible, that all cards taken out in Qualifying Competitions are returned to the Handicap Committee including incomplete cards.

 

[Jamesbrown]

If you play under competition rules then you should put a supplementary in imho.

Fair play to them. I’d have a comp on every day.

 

[Old Skier]

What would the club do about it if there were no committee members in the group. The fact that one of the group has access to the competition/handicapping software is a bit of a red herring. I would suggest that the said committee members have not been authorised by the Club Committee to run qualifiers in such a way. From the CONGU manual:

The Handicap Committee must

7.2 Maintain a record, manually or by computer, in which the names of competitors, on the day of the competition, must be entered prior to competing in a Qualifying Competition at the club.

7.3 Ensure, so far as possible, that all cards taken out in Qualifying Competitions are returned to the Handicap Committee including incomplete cards.

That's sort of what I was thinking along with the fact that it sets some kind of presidence. We have an inexperienced member of staff in on weekends who could end up setting up comps for anyone that asks. I'm not looking at coming down hard on this, I am just looking at getting something official so that I can form some kind of policy.
PS: The member was not part of my handicap committee.

 

[Old Skier]

Fair play to them. I’d have a comp on every day.

But would you be happy to administer it.

 

[Jamesbrown]

But would you be happy to administer it.

I think I may have to employ some administration for that. 😂