A what point does Regular become Stiff!

[PeterPumpkinEater]

After my session last week on the Vector Launch Monitor I was advised to get a different shaft and higher lofted driver.

I have always thought that I had quite a quick'ish swing however on the VLM it stated that my driver swing speed was 90mph, where as the Speed Stik that I have has me down at 100-105mph.

On the strength of the VLM I bought a Nike Sasquatch 11.5deg Regular shaft from a Cobra F Speed LD Stiff shafted driver.

So my question is this at what swing speed do you change to a stiff shafted driver 95mph? 100mph? 105mph?

Also if I have the wrong shaft i.e. Regular, how will it affect my ball striking? Will the club head be behind and open?

Apologies for all the questions guys I'm still learning

 

[RGuk]

Here's my opinion.

#1. The gauge on the speed stik is not accurate. The VLM is!
I get 95 mph on a VLM and use REGULAR Shaft woods. It is my belief that anything under 100 mph should use regular. More flex is generally the better of the two.

#2. I use stiff shafted graphite irons.....not becuase I get the best distance, but because I prefer the feel. Using steel, I'd never go stiff flex.

#3. If you've been recommended a reg flex driver....i.m.h.o. that is 100% the correct choice.

There are a few websites suggesting anything over 85 mph should be stiff, but then they estimate the carry at 240.
When I returned to golf, I did quite a bit of research into optimum driver lofts and clubhead speeds. There is NO possible way on this planet that an 85 mph can produce even close to 240 yards carry, therefore, I discount these sites as "poor science".

In the old days, shafts were often rated as 80/90/100, a nominal figure close to the mph. I always used "90" flex or R. Unless my winter training gets me over 100 mph (and by quite a bit) I'll be sticking with R.

 

[Imurg]

A lot of the shaft manufacturers give suggested swing speeds for their particular brand. For the most part the swing sppeds overlap slightly. Say 80-95 = regular but 90-110 = stiff. So you may be in the overlap region and you could choose either depending on your preference. Rule of thumb - stiffer = more accuracy, more flexible = more distance. But you have to take kickpoints into consideration too.

Don't forget that there is no industry standard for shaft flex. Aldila might call a shaft stiff flex but that "flexness" may equal a regular UST shaft.

 

[RGuk]

For the most part the swing sppeds overlap slightly. Say 80-95 = regular but 90-110 = stiff. So you may be in the overlap region and you could choose either depending on your preference. Rule of thumb - stiffer = more accuracy, more flexible = more distance. But you have to take kickpoints into consideration too.

Thank goodness for this comment! I need the distance on woods, hence R flex and am more concerned with accuracy for irons, hence S flex. Works for me.....I've been on the dividing line for 15 years.

 

[Imurg]

Glad to be of help.

Been in that boat myself. I'm borderline stiff shaft for the irons but regular (steel) just feels better.

 

[backwoodsman]

Just to poach the thread a bit and to ask what might be a stupid question - how much variation in clubhead speed would you expect between different clubs. What difference in speed between a 6i and a driver say?

 

[viscount17]

I was clocked at 88 when I got my driver. Six months or so later I was clocked at 88 when I got my irons.
I know I don't (can't if I want to find it!) hit my driver flat out, so maybe my 'natural' swing speed for my driver has increased beyond the shaft speed?

 

[USER1999]

If the shaft is too stiff, you will carve it right with no real power, if it is too soft, you will hook the bejesus out of it.

My SS is 93ish, and I am borderline stiff. My Driver has been c/fed and the shaft in it has been stepped to a bit below stiff. It works for me. I can get more power by going regular, but I do tend to lose it left.

Iron wise, I have regular dynamic gold. Again, I was borderline, but I hit the R300s more consistently than the S300s during my c/f session.

In theory the driver should have a higher ss than the irons, as if you swing your arms etc at the same speed, the increased shaft length will deliver a higher club head speed. In practice, the length of the shaft and size of the head makes it more cumbersome to swing, and so some of the advantage is lost.

 

[John_Findlay]

I was custom fit for my Driver on the Titleist launch monitor. Got a D1.

Swing speed 103-105mph (ball speed 150mph) and the recommended shaft was a regular (albeit 1 inch short) Graphite Design YS-6. Much more distance and height than my old stiff shafted TaylorMade driver. Hope that's of some help.

 

[PeterPumpkinEater]

I was custom fit for my Driver on the Titleist launch monitor. Got a D1.

Swing speed 103-105mph (ball speed 150mph) and the recommended shaft was a regular (albeit 1 inch short) Graphite Design YS-6. Much more distance and height than my old stiff shafted TaylorMade driver. Hope that's of some help.

Exactly the post i was looking for.

Cheers John.

 

[Cernunnos]

stiffness of shaft is one thing & depending upon the torque (or twist) of the shaft will actually have as much if not more ffect upon draw & fade charcteristics of any club but deciding where the kickpont should be is probably just as important, maybe moreso, especially when we decide to go regular shaft yet or swingspeed is in that borderline between regular & stiff.

There agin what is actually regular & stiff as far as graphite shafts are concerned from one manufacturer to another can vary greatly. The manufactureres will denigh this I'm sure, but its there. Hence why some regular shafts have that little extra stiffness that suite some of us that fall in the gap range of 85mph-95mph swingspeed.

I know from launch monitors that my swingspeed has when I've been playing & swinging effectively has reached 102mph, but in the off season will have slowed to as slow as 84mph . Most of this is down to technique & flexibility than all out strength.

A lot of shop bassed club fitters will er on the side of caution & will recommend regular shafts & high lofts in drivers, which is all well & good in offseason, when we all get a bit slow & cumbersome & can help get the ball up in the in the air with reasonable repeatable distance up to a point. But just as the howitzer thats aimed at the sky, get the angle up too high & the shell starts to drop closer instead of further away, or more to the point will not increase in distance. Thats the simplified explanation, without drawing curves on the screen.

Of course as we now delve even deeper we get into the ball itself, the dimples, the imparted spin on the ball from grooves in the club too, launch angles off a face of a driver dependent upon the swingspeed, which means a change in the launch angle. So this ideal window or letterbox of launch angel that some club fitters will tell you about when fitting a driver can be affected by shaft flex, shaft kickpoint, angle of face, ball dimples & most importantly swingspeed. Vary any one of these & we can enter the correct launch angel window, vary it too much or vary something else & bang, we're up out the other side & of the launch angle window & loosing distance, increasing backspin on the ball,all manner of things.

What I'm getting at is to come back to my point about some club fitters being cautious is that set us up so that we're already into the top of the launch anglewindow.increase the swingspeed & combine this with too much flex & or toque, or loft on the club & its a loss of distance & or accuracy instead of the increased distance most people will crave, when accuracy is probably more benificial. Hence why a few people will say that prefer a steel shaft in woods, due to the reduced touque in the shaft. Hence why I tend to now go for a slightly higher kickpoint as a compromise instead of going to the stif shaft option, though the temptation is great to do so. And explains why occasionally the risk of loosing a few yards with a stiffer shaft than stricktly speeking is good for us is not all together a bad thing, as the worst that can happen is we a 5 yards shorter in carry if the technique or swingspeed is down, but get it right & we will get past any of our regular shafted shots. But its each to their own & a decision not to be taken lightly & formost a regular shaft of one form or another is the best move.

 

[andiritchie]

I was custom fit for my Driver on the Titleist launch monitor. Got a D1.

Swing speed 103-105mph (ball speed 150mph) and the recommended shaft was a regular (albeit 1 inch short) Graphite Design YS-6. Much more distance and height than my old stiff shafted TaylorMade driver. Hope that's of some help.

does the inch shorter shaft make it play stiffer always wondered surely it will move kick points higher

 

[Herbie]

When I first read this topic I thought it was about a constipation clinic.

 

[RGuk]

does the inch shorter shaft make it play stiffer always wondered surely it will move kick points higher

Hmm......I'm pleased J_F's driver worked out. I took my G5 to get an inch cut off (to make it the same length as my FT-3) and the two pros in the shop (both trained fitters) ran a mile!! 1) Cutting graphite shafts is a bit risky (apparently) and 2) they said it might adversely affect the stiffness and/or swingweight.

I suspect in John's case.....making it a little stiffer would be a bonus with over 100 mph.....everyone's a winner!
Cool

 

[John_Findlay]

I imagine it must make it a bit stiffer...like cutting a straw in half...but I never thought about the kickpoint.

Hmmm. Maybe he took the inch out of the middle!

Luckily my fitting was at the Titelist Tour Van....the one the pros use so the guy was an expert and I'm a happy chappy.

 

[Smiffy]

I have never had my swing speed checked but don't consider it to be particularly fast.
Prior to buying my Steelhead+ woods, I was using "Tandric" (a Callaway copy) with regular graphite shafts fitted to them as well as the matching irons. I got on quite well with them and saw my handicap come down quite quickly. When I could afford it I swapped my woods for the Steelheads and went for firm shafts in them. I have had no problem hitting them at all. I then changed my irons to John Letters Trilogy and again went the firm shafted route as the Tandrics had felt a little "whippy". Again, I hit my irons really well.
I have now changed my irons again and because of price constraints had to go for steel shafts and have the standard or regular shafts in the X18's..
They feel really stiff in comparison to the John Letters "firm" graphite and I have noticed (albeit only over one round) that a less than perfect shot will leak out to the right slightly (right handed)....
I'm hoping that I haven't made a mistake and that it's just me getting used to the new clubs.

 

[andiritchie]

I suspect the fitters took all that into consideration on fitting the shaft so it would work perfectly