A question for the rules experts

Orikoru said:
Why is it always whataboutery and Devil's advocate with you? It's exhausting. Move the crowd to wherever is deemed necessary. Who cares? They still have grandstands to pack them in.
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In fairness, on this specific issue, it is something that is not done at the moment. So, to introduce such a radical idea, the pros and cons would need to be seriously looked at.

As I said before, it would likely significantly reduce the crowds that they could have on the course, as there is no way players would be happy having crowds close to the fairways. If we kept crowds were they are now, we'd have a ridiculous amount of penalties, that golf would actually become boring to watch. You could have a case of a player doing really really well, and then on one hole where the crowd is close to the fairway, they just happen to go slightly off line a couple of times and they end up playing 5 off the tee, or worse. You could shorten the courses, so that pro's can just be mega safe all the time and knock an iron off every tee. But, that is just going to be really boring to watch. You almost might as well have 18 Par 3's, as golf will just become about approach shots and putts, because controlling a driver to the point you can virtually guarantee not missing fairways by 5 or 10 yards is almost impossible, even for the best professionals in the world.
 
Orikoru said:
Completely agree and I've been saying that for years. I first brought it up as an answer to the 'roll-back' issue, because it would force bomb-and-gougers to think twice if galleries were out of bounds - more emphasis on keeping it in play. It would also partially protect people from getting hit in the head with a ball, if it makes the players a bit more careful.

You could of course move the crowd area back slightly in accordance with this.
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It would detract from the experience of watching live golf in person.
 
Swango1980 said:
In fairness, on this specific issue, it is something that is not done at the moment. So, to introduce such a radical idea, the pros and cons would need to be seriously looked at.

As I said before, it would likely significantly reduce the crowds that they could have on the course, as there is no way players would be happy having crowds close to the fairways. If we kept crowds were they are now, we'd have a ridiculous amount of penalties, that golf would actually become boring to watch. You could have a case of a player doing really really well, and then on one hole where the crowd is close to the fairway, they just happen to go slightly off line a couple of times and they end up playing 5 off the tee, or worse. You could shorten the courses, so that pro's can just be mega safe all the time and knock an iron off every tee. But, that is just going to be really boring to watch. You almost might as well have 18 Par 3's, as golf will just become about approach shots and putts, because controlling a driver to the point you can virtually guarantee not missing fairways by 5 or 10 yards is almost impossible, even for the best professionals in the world.
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Missing a fairway by five or ten yards would be absolutely fine in most cases, there's usually at least that much rough. The spectators don't line the fairways, there is a buffer of rough between them and the short stuff.
 
Swango1980 said:
In fairness, on this specific issue, it is something that is not done at the moment. So, to introduce such a radical idea, the pros and cons would need to be seriously looked at.

As I said before, it would likely significantly reduce the crowds that they could have on the course, as there is no way players would be happy having crowds close to the fairways. If we kept crowds were they are now, we'd have a ridiculous amount of penalties, that golf would actually become boring to watch. You could have a case of a player doing really really well, and then on one hole where the crowd is close to the fairway, they just happen to go slightly off line a couple of times and they end up playing 5 off the tee, or worse. You could shorten the courses, so that pro's can just be mega safe all the time and knock an iron off every tee. But, that is just going to be really boring to watch. You almost might as well have 18 Par 3's, as golf will just become about approach shots and putts, because controlling a driver to the point you can virtually guarantee not missing fairways by 5 or 10 yards is almost impossible, even for the best professionals in the world.
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We're only talking pushing the boundary back another 5 or 10 yards at the points around driver landing areas. Not really a drastic change.
 
Making the OOB where the rope for spectators are, sounds good at first until you break it down what that would really mean
a) The ropes would then be put back so far from the action, that it would be a complete waste of time going to see it live
b) spectators would be hundred(s) yards away, that there would be no atmosphere
c) If the ropes are left where they are now, who wants to watch the pros hitting boring irons onto the fairway, then another iron into the green, as the risk or reward would be tipped too far one way
 
LincolnShep said:
Missing a fairway by five or ten yards would be absolutely fine in most cases, there's usually at least that much rough. The spectators don't line the fairways, there is a buffer of rough between them and the short stuff.
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10 yards is quite a long way, although I was just using that as a general number.

Pro's are not trying to miss the fairways. They are generally not trying to take short cuts. So, when they end up that far offline, it is 100% unintentional. So, if you make those areas completely OB, then they are either still going hit a good number of shots wide, and get a lot of severe penalties. Or, they have to start hitting irons off the tee, at which point you start to eliminate the skill of driving, ironically.

I'd rather the course design is good, so that there are tricky bunkers or rough in areas where big hits can go, and have that as a risk. Rather than just have a black or white, in many cases, of either great drive or out of bounds drive.
 
WorldHandicapSystem said:
If you don’t want to hit 3 off the tee don’t hit it OB. The same with lost balls, if you are not 100% certain where your ball is, hit a provisional.
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Golf would take forever if you took a provisional every time you are not 100% sure where it is.
The only time you are 100% sure is when you see it come to rest .
Provisionals are time consuming much better to have a proper rule saying where to drop it.
 
Backache said:
Golf would take forever if you took a provisional every time you are not 100% sure where it is.
The only time you are 100% sure is when you see it come to rest .
Provisionals are time consuming much better to have a proper rule saying where to drop it.
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There is. Just drop it where you you last hit from.
 
rulefan said:
There is. Just drop it where you you last hit from.
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Yes, but the original point is not a place that wasted everyone's time by walking back to that place, or writing off your card. I think the RoG would be improved by having such a rule other than then having it effectively denied by the handicapping authorities.
 
Backache said:
Yes, but the original point is not a place that wasted everyone's time by walking back to that place, or writing off your card. I think the RoG would be improved by having such a rule other than then having it effectively denied by the handicapping authorities.
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So where do you suggest it should be dropped?
 
This was mentioned on a Rick Shiels podcast a while back, but I think it would be good if they removed the 'three off the tee' penalty. i.e. if your first shot is out of bounds, and you have to hit another tee shot, you are there for 2 instead of 3. Benefits would be that people are more likely to hit a provisional and won't spend as long looking for their first ball if the provisional is in good shape, as it'll only be one shot lost. Improving speed of play on medal days for sure.
 
Orikoru said:
This was mentioned on a Rick Shiels podcast a while back, but I think it would be good if they removed the 'three off the tee' penalty. i.e. if your first shot is out of bounds, and you have to hit another tee shot, you are there for 2 instead of 3. Benefits would be that people are more likely to hit a provisional and won't spend as long looking for their first ball if the provisional is in good shape, as it'll only be one shot lost. Improving speed of play on medal days for sure.
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Would that be for OB only or whenever you want? If I duff a shot into the long grass just in front of the tee on a par 3 and then would have to try and hack it out with little chance of getting it on the green (had to carry a bunker for example) could I then just hit another on to the green from the tee instead?
 
Orikoru said:
This was mentioned on a Rick Shiels podcast a while back, but I think it would be good if they removed the 'three off the tee' penalty. i.e. if your first shot is out of bounds, and you have to hit another tee shot, you are there for 2 instead of 3. Benefits would be that people are more likely to hit a provisional and won't spend as long looking for their first ball if the provisional is in good shape, as it'll only be one shot lost. Improving speed of play on medal days for sure.
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If the ball is out of bounds why is someone not hitting another ball anyway

If you can’t keep the ball in the confines of the golf course then there needs to a penalty - just hitting another one without any penalty stroke is not a penalty
 
D-S said:
Would that be for OB only or whenever you want? If I duff a shot into the long grass just in front of the tee on a par 3 and then would have to try and hack it out with little chance of getting it on the green (had to carry a bunker for example) could I then just hit another on to the green from the tee instead?
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That's a good point to be fair. I don't know the answer. 😂

Arthur Wedge said:
If the ball is out of bounds why is someone not hitting another ball anyway

If you can’t keep the ball in the confines of the golf course then there needs to a penalty - just hitting another one without any penalty stroke is not a penalty
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I mean it is, because you've wasted a shot so you're now on fairway (maybe) for 2 instead of for 1. But it does sometimes feel harsh that, playing a hole you don't get a shot on, you hit one slightly weak fade, the wind blows it out of bounds, and you've basically blobbed the hole immediately from one bad shot, unless you can somehow birdie it with your second ball.

I guess that's also why people don't always hit provisionals, feels like there's no point as they'd have to birdie with the second ball, and it makes them more determined to find their original ball (provided it isn't clearly OOB of course). And they'll spend the full allotted time looking for it. As opposed to it being two off the tee, they hit a good second one, and will probably be happy enough to play that with a good chance of making bogey.
 
Orikoru said:
That's a good point to be fair. I don't know the answer. 😂


I mean it is, because you've wasted a shot so you're now on fairway (maybe) for 2 instead of for 1. But it does sometimes feel harsh that, playing a hole you don't get a shot on, you hit one slightly weak fade, the wind blows it out of bounds, and you've basically blobbed the hole immediately from one bad shot, unless you can somehow birdie it with your second ball.

I guess that's also why people don't always hit provisionals, feels like there's no point as they'd have to birdie with the second ball, and it makes them more determined to find their original ball (provided it isn't clearly OOB of course). And they'll spend the full allotted time looking for it. As opposed to it being two off the tee, they hit a good second one, and will probably be happy enough to play that with a good chance of making bogey.
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“Playing a hole you don’t get a shot on”

You were talking about medals ? So there are no blobs

If you hit a ball out of the golf course then there is a penalty - you don’t just get to take it again
 
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