A cople of questions on Acceptable Scores.

[LIG]

Just been chatting at the club and wondered...

1. If a player can decide prior to play that the round is for handicapping but cannot state whether for 9 or 18 holes? The player in question was having health issues and was unsure if he would be able to complete 18 holes. As it turmed out, on the 3rd green, he told his marker that he wanted to stop after 9. There were several (unwanted/loud/stupid) opinions offered, but what is the truth regarding the validity of his 9 hole score for handicapping?

2. If the circumstances were the same but he had only informed his companions of his desire/need to stop, on the 9 hole. What difference (if any) would it make to the answer given for 1?

 

[LIG]

Also, the player is likely to require this "option" for several weeks yet but at the time I didn't want to suggest what appeared an obvious solution (to me) - he could say that he was doing 9 holes on the first tee and then another 9 holes on the 9th green (two nine hole scores). Is this possible/allowed under WHS/RoG?
Sometimes rules defy common sense because some other "bright spark" will find a way of misusung/abusing it.

 

[jim8flog]

Given that a player has to declare their intentions before commencing a General Play rounds I would say they cannot decide not how many they will be playing in the first instance as an option when on the course.

Rules of handicapping

(iii) Registering Intent to Submit a Score in General Play. A player is required to
pre-register their intent to submit either a 9-hole or 18-hole acceptable
score in general play for handicap purposes.
Such pre-registration must be made:
l Before the player starts the round, and
l According to the requirements or conditions established by the
Handicap Committee and/or the Authorized Association.
If a player registers their intent to submit an 18-hole score but does not
complete the minimum number of holes required for an 18-hole score to
be acceptable, the score is not acceptable for handicap purposes even if 9
holes have been completed. Likewise, if the player pre-registers their
intent to submit a 9-hole score, they can only submit a 9-hole score, even
if the minimum number of holes are played for an 18-hole score to be
acceptable.

How do they sign up where you play?

We use either EG or IG and both require the number of holes to be stated when signing in for one

 

[LIG]

Given that a player has to declare their intentions before commencing a General Play rounds I would say they cannot decide not how many they will be playing in the first instance as an option when on the course.

Rules of handicapping

(iii) Registering Intent to Submit a Score in General Play. A player is required to
pre-register their intent to submit either a 9-hole or 18-hole acceptable
score in general play for handicap purposes.
Such pre-registration must be made:
l Before the player starts the round, and
l According to the requirements or conditions established by the
Handicap Committee and/or the Authorized Association.
If a player registers their intent to submit an 18-hole score but does not
complete the minimum number of holes required for an 18-hole score to
be acceptable, the score is not acceptable for handicap purposes even if 9
holes have been completed. Likewise, if the player pre-registers their
intent to submit a 9-hole score, they can only submit a 9-hole score, even
if the minimum number of holes are played for an 18-hole score to be
acceptable.

How do they sign up where you play?

We use either EG or IG and both require the number of holes to be stated when signing in for one

Thanks Jim.
The IG app only allows submission of competition scores at our club. General play rounds can't be done that way as our club has not allowed that option via the IG app.
I am new-ish to this but know that EG app works in the way you say - intention to submit asks for 9 or 18 hole and tees to be used.
Based on my limited experience using the EG app, I have done both ways; set up a round on the app before playing and filled in the scores after the round from the scorecard; or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off. Our club will accept GP scorecards for manual input (by them) but have suggested that players use the EG app for GP scores. This means that I have had "start a round" and then copy scores from the scorecard to the app, and then wait 2 hours for it to be submitted and subsequently attested by my marker.

Seems quite flexible but, as many have said, leaves a big hole through which the unscrupulous can walk.
Personally, I prefer to have every round counted for handicap as I think was intended by the WHS scheme but mostly because that's how I've always played - every stroke matters!

It was because of this flexibility that I thought of the two 9-hole scenario but having read up a bit more realise that this is mentioned as not acceptable in the handicapping rules.

As far as the original question situation was concerned, the players weren't using any app, just a scorecard - so the question still needs a definitive answer regarding the 9 hole score he submitted.

 

[nickjdavis]

Thanks Jim.
The IG app only allows submission of competition scores at our club. General play rounds can't be done that way as our club has not allowed that option via the IG app.
I am new-ish to this but know that EG app works in the way you say - intention to submit asks for 9 or 18 hole and tees to be used.
Based on my limited experience using the EG app, I have done both ways; set up a round on the app before playing and filled in the scores after the round from the scorecard; or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off. Our club will accept GP scorecards for manual input (by them) but have suggested that players use the EG app for GP scores. This means that I have had "start a round" and then copy scores from the scorecard to the app, and then wait 2 hours for it to be submitted and subsequently attested by my marker.

Seems quite flexible but, as many have said, leaves a big hole through which the unscrupulous can walk.
Personally, I prefer to have every round counted for handicap as I think was intended by the WHS scheme but mostly because that's how I've always played - every stroke matters!

It was because of this flexibility that I thought of the two 9-hole scenario but having read up a bit more realise that this is mentioned as not acceptable in the handicapping rules.

As far as the original question situation was concerned, the players weren't using any app, just a scorecard - so the question still needs a definitive answer regarding the 9 hole score he submitted.

Why do you need to wait 2 hours for the score to be submitted?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Thanks Jim.
The IG app only allows submission of competition scores at our club. General play rounds can't be done that way as our club has not allowed that option via the IG app.
I am new-ish to this but know that EG app works in the way you say - intention to submit asks for 9 or 18 hole and tees to be used.
Based on my limited experience using the EG app, I have done both ways; set up a round on the app before playing and filled in the scores after the round from the scorecard; or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off. Our club will accept GP scorecards for manual input (by them) but have suggested that players use the EG app for GP scores. This means that I have had "start a round" and then copy scores from the scorecard to the app, and then wait 2 hours for it to be submitted and subsequently attested by my marker.

Seems quite flexible but, as many have said, leaves a big hole through which the unscrupulous can walk.
Personally, I prefer to have every round counted for handicap as I think was intended by the WHS scheme but mostly because that's how I've always played - every stroke matters!

It was because of this flexibility that I thought of the two 9-hole scenario but having read up a bit more realise that this is mentioned as not acceptable in the handicapping rules.

As far as the original question situation was concerned, the players weren't using any app, just a scorecard - so the question still needs a definitive answer regarding the 9 hole score he submitted.

If you have started the round before going out to play then you won’t have to wait 2 hours to submit if you do the scores after you finish

 

[D-S]

Thanks Jim.
The IG app only allows submission of competition scores at our club. General play rounds can't be done that way as our club has not allowed that option via the IG app.
I am new-ish to this but know that EG app works in the way you say - intention to submit asks for 9 or 18 hole and tees to be used.
Based on my limited experience using the EG app, I have done both ways; set up a round on the app before playing and filled in the scores after the round from the scorecard; or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off. Our club will accept GP scorecards for manual input (by them) but have suggested that players use the EG app for GP scores. This means that I have had "start a round" and then copy scores from the scorecard to the app, and then wait 2 hours for it to be submitted and subsequently attested by my marker.

Seems quite flexible but, as many have said, leaves a big hole through which the unscrupulous can walk.
Personally, I prefer to have every round counted for handicap as I think was intended by the WHS scheme but mostly because that's how I've always played - every stroke matters!

It was because of this flexibility that I thought of the two 9-hole scenario but having read up a bit more realise that this is mentioned as not acceptable in the handicapping rules.

As far as the original question situation was concerned, the players weren't using any app, just a scorecard - so the question still needs a definitive answer regarding the 9 hole score he submitted.

“or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off.”
All rounds for handicap must be pre-registered if they are to be acceptable for handicapping.
The method of pre registration has to be laid down by the Committee.
I would be more than stunned if your committee has ‘stating to your marker that this is for handicap’ will be one of the methods authorised by your committee. If you want to follow the rules of handicapping, then you should advise the committee of the facts and they should delete these ‘non-pre registered’ scores from your record.
In future you just need to follow the dictates of the committee.
If nothing else, following the rules will save you two hours of hanging around.

 

[woofers]

Given the

Also, the player is likely to require this "option" for several weeks yet but at the time I didn't want to suggest what appeared an obvious solution (to me) - he could say that he was doing 9 holes on the first tee and then another 9 holes on the 9th green (two nine hole scores). Is this possible/allowed under WHS/RoG?
Sometimes rules defy common sense because some other "bright spark" will find a way of misusung/abusing it.

Given the circumstances outlined, it would seem that the best solution for the time being would be for player to register for, play and submit a score for 9 holes only. This would be an acceptable score for their handicap record, if they play on after the 9th, great but it’s not counting or of concern.

 

[woofers]

“or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off.”
All rounds for handicap must be pre-registered if they are to be acceptable for handicapping.
The method of pre registration has to be laid down by the Committee.
I would be more than stunned if your committee has ‘stating to your marker that this is for handicap’ will be one of the methods authorised by your committee. If you want to follow the rules of handicapping, then you should advise the committee of the facts and they should delete these ‘non-pre registered’ scores from your record.
In future you just need to follow the dictates of the committee.
If nothing else, following the rules will save you two hours of hanging around.

https://static.whsplatform.englandgolf.org/clubs/1000-1/uploads/downloads/whs/whs-handicap-committee/acceptable-score-submissions-for-handicap-purposes.pdf

First bullet point on page 2 muddies the water a bit.

 

[wjemather]

Just been chatting at the club and wondered...

1. If a player can decide prior to play that the round is for handicapping but cannot state whether for 9 or 18 holes? The player in question was having health issues and was unsure if he would be able to complete 18 holes. As it turmed out, on the 3rd green, he told his marker that he wanted to stop after 9. There were several (unwanted/loud/stupid) opinions offered, but what is the truth regarding the validity of his 9 hole score for handicapping?

2. If the circumstances were the same but he had only informed his companions of his desire/need to stop, on the 9 hole. What difference (if any) would it make to the answer given for 1?

The player must decide whether they are going to submit a 9 or an 18-hole score before they start. If their health means that completing 18 is unlikely, they should choose 9. However, if they choose to pre-register for 18 and only manage 9 due to ill health, their score is not acceptable for handicapping as the minimum number of holes have not been started.

 

[LIG]

Why do you need to wait 2 hours for the score to be submitted?

I believe that the 2 hour delay is to ensure that the intent to submit a score was made clear BEFORE a round was begun.

If you have started the round before going out to play then you won’t have to wait 2 hours to submit if you do the scores after you finish

This has only happened twice. The first time when the club said they would get round to entering the scores in a day or two as the HC sec/admin was away, but that we could use the EG app to submit our scores that day. We decided to do just that!
The second time the App was not loading/signing in and our tee time was 2 mins away.

“or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off.”
All rounds for handicap must be pre-registered if they are to be acceptable for handicapping.
The method of pre registration has to be laid down by the Committee.
I would be more than stunned if your committee has ‘stating to your marker that this is for handicap’ will be one of the methods authorised by your committee. If you want to follow the rules of handicapping, then you should advise the committee of the facts and they should delete these ‘non-pre registered’ scores from your record.
In future you just need to follow the dictates of the committee.
If nothing else, following the rules will save you two hours of hanging around.

You..... should be stunned!

FYI - Quoting the rules assumes the other person is somehow stupid and/or can't read. I don't assume that but take offence at what you think I "should" or "need to" do.
You would be well advised to learn to write in a less pedantic and insulting manner or just and

. There's realy no need for it!

Given the

Given the circumstances outlined, it would seem that the best solution for the time being would be for player to register for, play and submit a score for 9 holes only. This would be an acceptable score for their handicap record, if they play on after the 9th, great but it’s not counting or of concern.

Thanks for that. It does seem to be the only method he can follow and I've messaged his marker which will be sufficient

 

[LIG]

The player must decide whether they are going to submit a 9 or an 18-hole score before they start. If their health means that completing 18 is unlikely, they should choose 9. However, if they choose to pre-register for 18 and only manage 9 due to ill health, there score is not acceptable for handicapping as the minimum number of holes have not been started.

Many thanks for confirming.

 

[nickjdavis]

I believe that the 2 hour delay is to ensure that the intent to submit a score was made clear BEFORE a round was begun.

Yep, I realise that...was just wondering why it affected you...but you explained in one of your other responses why you were unable to pre-register properly.

 

[D-S]

I believe that the 2 hour delay is to ensure that the intent to submit a score was made clear BEFORE a round was begun.


This has only happened twice. The first time when the club said they would get round to entering the scores in a day or two as the HC sec/admin was away, but that we could use the EG app to submit our scores that day. We decided to do just that!
The second time the App was not loading/signing in and our tee time was 2 mins away.


You..... should be stunned!

FYI - Quoting the rules assumes the other person is somehow stupid and/or can't read. I don't assume that but take offence at what you think I "should" or "need to" do.
You would be well advised to learn to write in a less pedantic and insulting manner or just and

. There's realy no need for it!


Thanks for that. It does seem to be the only method he can follow and I've messaged his marker which will be sufficient

I believe that the 2 hour delay is to ensure that the intent to submit a score was made clear BEFORE a round was begun.


This has only happened twice. The first time when the club said they would get round to entering the scores in a day or two as the HC sec/admin was away, but that we could use the EG app to submit our scores that day. We decided to do just that!
The second time the App was not loading/signing in and our tee time was 2 mins away.


You..... should be stunned!

FYI - Quoting the rules assumes the other person is somehow stupid and/or can't read. I don't assume that but take offence at what you think I "should" or "need to" do.
You would be well advised to learn to write in a less pedantic and insulting manner or just and

. There's realy no need for it!


Thanks for that. It does seem to be the only method he can follow and I've messaged his marker which will be sufficient

So I assume you have checked that just stating to your marker ‘this is for handicap’ is considered an ok method of pre registration by your Handicap Committee for all GP score at your club?

 

[woofers]

“or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off.”
All rounds for handicap must be pre-registered if they are to be acceptable for handicapping.
The method of pre registration has to be laid down by the Committee.
I would be more than stunned if your committee has ‘stating to your marker that this is for handicap’ will be one of the methods authorised by your committee. If you want to follow the rules of handicapping, then you should advise the committee of the facts and they should delete these ‘non-pre registered’ scores from your record.
In future you just need to follow the dictates of the committee.
If nothing else, following the rules will save you two hours of hanging around.

So I assume you have checked that just stating to your marker ‘this is for handicap’ is considered an ok method of pre registration by your Handicap Committee for all GP score at your club?

Just out of interest how do you, personally, (or your committee), verify that a round has been pre-registered at your club, and for away scores?
It’s an area I would welcome some practical advice, particularly in light of England Golf’s “Acceptable Score Submissions for Handicap Purposes” document, page 2, first bullet point.
All other rules experts please feel free to contribute to how the practical verification and compliance of “intent” and “pre-registration” of general play scores is carried out by yourselves.

 

[jim8flog]

Thanks Jim.
The IG app only allows submission of competition scores at our club. General play rounds can't be done that way as our club has not allowed that option via the IG app.

Do they allow preregistration via the PSI screen?

 

[jim8flog]

P.S Not sure why your club needs to see every card.

The advice we got from county at the start was that we only need to check a sample of the cards not every one.

Cards only go in for those using the PSI screen to register.

 

[D-S]

Just out of interest how do you, personally, (or your committee), verify that a round has been pre-registered at your club, and for away scores?
It’s an area I would welcome some practical advice, particularly in light of England Golf’s “Acceptable Score Submissions for Handicap Purposes” document, page 2, first bullet point.
All other rules experts please feel free to contribute to how the practical verification and compliance of “intent” and “pre-registration” of general play scores is carried out by yourselves.

Every club and committee has different rules and methods of acceptable pre registration. Of course this all starts with member education.
Many clubs cross refer score intent download time with tee sheet information. Dependent on pre registration rules/method some clubs cross refer pro shop logs or sign in books and tee times.
Obviously these just need to be random checks.
If someone is found to contravene the rules set down by the committee such as downloading a score card on the app hours after the tee time plainly ‘pre- registering after the round’ then personalised member re education kicks in, normally a friendly reminder to begin with. Clubs soon see repeat offenders and patterns emerge and take action as necessary.
As with most things to do with handicapping the vigilance, knowledge, diligence and time spent varies enormously from club to club.

 

[PJ87]

“or (if the app is being slow) stated to my marker that the score will be for handicap prior to teeing off.”
All rounds for handicap must be pre-registered if they are to be acceptable for handicapping.
The method of pre registration has to be laid down by the Committee.
I would be more than stunned if your committee has ‘stating to your marker that this is for handicap’ will be one of the methods authorised by your committee. If you want to follow the rules of handicapping, then you should advise the committee of the facts and they should delete these ‘non-pre registered’ scores from your record.
In future you just need to follow the dictates of the committee.
If nothing else, following the rules will save you two hours of hanging around.

Why on earth would you need to wait 2 hours? You only need to register your intent to score before the round

You don't even need to fill in the scores on the phone as you go round you can copy from your card later

Submitting the card isn't location based just starting the card is

A few times I've had to drive straight to work after finishing and submitted my card to my PP from work 25 miles away from the club.

 

[D-S]

Why on earth would you need to wait 2 hours? You only need to register your intent to score before the round

You don't even need to fill in the scores on the phone as you go round you can copy from your card later

Submitting the card isn't location based just starting the card is

A few times I've had to drive straight to work after finishing and submitted my card to my PP from work 25 miles away from the club.

I was referring to this from one of the OP’s posts - “This means that I have had "start a round" and then copy scores from the scorecard to the app, and then wait 2 hours for it to be submitted and subsequently attested by my marker.”