A bit of common sense

[HomerJSimpson]

It seems that the powers that be at Royal Ascot may not be as stuck in the mud as I'd thought. They've announced the joining fee has been abolished totally with immediate effect. Given that our fees are relatively high anyway (although not compared to many of our neighbours) it does seem a good idea and bit of common sense to try and attract new members in these difficult times.

 

[sweatysock41]

How are the members that have paid joining fees going to react Homer? Have they introduced reduced green fees to recompense them or some other way to rebate the joining fees they have already parted with, or indeed is it a case of tough - we need to attract more members?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

How are the members that have paid joining fees going to react Homer? Have they introduced reduced green fees to recompense them or some other way to rebate the joining fees they have already parted with, or indeed is it a case of tough - we need to attract more members?

Interesting point and to be honest I don't know. The club had introduced a deferred joining fee which meant you could roll it over two years and so I guess if you still had money owing this way then you'll not be asked for anymore. Otherwise I'm pretty sure it'll be a case of tough luck unless someone really bleats about it.

 

[Imurg]

I'd hate to be one of those who joined in the last few weeks.

Still some clubs round here with joining fees.

 

[sweatysock41]

Interesting point and to be honest I don't know. The club had introduced a deferred joining fee which meant you could roll it over two years and so I guess if you still had money owing this way then you'll not be asked for anymore. Otherwise I'm pretty sure it'll be a case of tough luck unless someone really bleats about it.

When they got rid of them at our place the existing members were offered reduced green fees over a period of 4 years until the joining fee had effectively been paid back. This was generally accepted as being fair by the existing members. Ours is a proprietory club, is yours owned by the membership?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'd hate to be one of those who joined in the last few weeks.

Still some clubs round here with joining fees.

I don't know when the last members joined. I wouldn't have thought it would have been recently with winter golf, Christmas etc. Maybe the club did them the deal anyway. Its a members club which I guess may help

 

[GB72]

I have to say I would be a bit hacked off as a member who had just paid in full (I have just finished paying my joining fee over the last 4 years). If our club abolished the joining fee then I would certainly be looking for some form of recompense but I would suspect that it would be unlikely to be given as they would need to see a serious increase in membership to cover lost income both from joining fees and reduced annual fees. Rumour has it that this year fees are going up £50 to cover the lower membership numbers.

 

[Tommo21]

It's the way of the world right now. Lots of clubs up here are cutting or stoping the joining fee. Membership across scotland is down about 3 or 4%. Add the fact that more and more golfers like myself are members at two clubs then it dont look good.

 

[GB72]

Could work the other way in my area. All of the clubs charge similar fees and similar joining fees and people tend to stay put. If one dithced their joining fee or cut membership fees then you could see an increase in membership. If that triggered everyone to do the same then you could actually lose members and revenue. Certainly I would take another look at Belton Park near me if they ditched the joining fee (nearer to me, more holes and possibly a better course). The only things that have held me back have been paying another joining fee and the pain of finding new groups to play with.

 

[Iaing]

I reckon that if a club does away with the joining fee then it's a case of hard luck to the members who paid the fee previously. I can't see any recompense being offered.
A bit like complaining that you bought a case of beer in Tesco yesterday and paid £12.99 and today they've gone and reduced it to £8.

 

[SocketRocket]

The down side for the club is that members who are a bit hard pressed will decide not to rejoin for a year or two and rejoin later because they wont have to pay another joining fee.

 

[Iaing]

The down side for the club is that members who are a bit hard pressed will decide not to rejoin for a year or two and rejoin later because they wont have to pay another joining fee.

I think clubs always say that they're " temporarily " waiving the joining fee to prevent this.

 

[GB72]

I reckon that if a club does away with the joining fee then it's a case of hard luck to the members who paid the fee previously. I can't see any recompense being offered.
A bit like complaining that you bought a case of beer in Tesco yesterday and paid £12.99 and today they've gone and reduced it to £8.

Fair point but if you had been a loyal Tesco customer for years, you may feel a bit hard done by (rightly or wrongly) and start doing your shopping at Asda.

My I have generally taken the view that clubs should be looking at what they can do to retain existing members rather than looking for the ever elusive, fly by night, new member who has 'always wanted to join the club and would have done so if it were not for the joining fee'. What is better in the long run, taking an action that may annoy or frustrate longer standing members or instead focus their attention on retaining what they already have.

 

[Captainron]

Times are tough and golf clubs need to generate new income and introduce new blood into a generally ageing membership population. I can understand being some people being hacked off by the change butthey need to look further than their own wallets. Winter means that not too many folk are looking to join a club and by removing the joining fee this will increase the chances of gaining a few new members. It's a good marketing play in that it will attract players to have a knock to see what the course is like and people rarely play alone so they will bring a friend who might also be thinking of joining. The lack of joining fee changes the psyche of the average punter into thinking the course is more accessible and they play more rounds there. It's like a petrol station that changes to 24 hour service finds that their daytime traffic increases because customers think the place is always open. I hope it provides you guys with some great new members.

 

[GB72]

But a move like this is so often a total shot in the dark. Clubs assume that there are a mass of young people longing to play golf but very rarely check if that is the case before they make these moves. Do clubs carry out accurate market research to ascertain whether these members are there, whether they want to join a club, whether they want to join this club in particular and whether the only thing preventing them signing up is the joining fee. Without that the decision is pure guess work which could just as easily both antagonise or drive away existing members, reduce revenue from new members who may have joined anyway or introduce an element of price competition in the regional golf market that has not existed before.

 

[Captainron]

I agree that this sort of decision requires some homework and I hope the club did theirs.

The choices available around Royal Ascot are pretty expensive in the main. The Berkshire, Swinley Forest, Sunningdale etc. are not generally accessible to many due to long membership waiting lists and higher fees. So if I was in the area and looking to join a good club I would definitely look into joining because of the lack of joining fee. We're talking stockbroker belt here so the demographic must be favourable.....

 

[MadAdey]

Just looked at your green fees at £1375, is it like most clubs and the joining fee is the same? If it is that will be £2750 for the first year. That is a lot of money for people to find in this climate. Golf clubs do have a high number of senior players and as they leave you need to fill those positions. Like a lot of clubs they will be struggling for new members. I joined my club last summer, my girlfriend thought I was joking when I said I just walked straight in as she knew the did have a 5 year waiting list in the past.

Everything is going up in price, we have all noticed how much our utility bills have gone up. Think about how much the club pay every year in bills including the water costs. Also the fuel to run the green keeping machinery. If the club does not get new members then you may find the annual green fees going up to compensate for this.

Think about it like this. If a club has 1000 members paying £1000 a year in green fees then they will bring in £1,000,000 a year from it. If the club all of a sudden has 900 members then it has lost £100,000 a year. That needs making up so your annual green fees would have to go up by £100 to cover it. Also people are short of money so you do not have the nomadic golfers turning up paying green fees either as often as you did from other courses.

At the end of the day the choice is yours.............annual green fees go up or ditch the joining fee in hte hope of attracting new members.

 

[GB72]

But this still makes the assumption that there are new members willing to join once you remove the joining fee who would not have joined with it there. You have to take into account that you will lose all of the extra income from existing members who are currently paying the joining fee over an extended period as well as the added income from those who would have joined with the fee in place. You are gambling this (some of which is guaranteed income) against the prospect of attracting sufficient new members who hang around for a few years to cover that loss. You also have to take into account that some members who may be affronted by this having just shelled out a grand may look elsewhere. Furthermore, if you do it, other clubs may do likewise and if you are going to start a price war and fight over members with other clubs then you have to be damn sure that it is your club that is going to end up with more members at the end of it because a price war with no joining fees to hold members in place could spell the end for some clubs.

I am not saying that it is a bad thing to drop joining fees, just that it is not a guarantee of a successful outcome and could cause more harm than good if not properly thought out.

 

[MadAdey]

It is not too bad for us, but you play at Stoke and I play at Spalding so the green fees are not bad at all considering the course we get to play. Clubs need to make this gamble. What they have done at Spalding now is not waive the £600 joining fee but you pay it over 4 years so it £750 a year for the first 4 years dropping to £600 after that. Have they dropped the joining fees at Stoke? I was talking To Angus a while ago and I can't rememeber if he said they had dropped the joining fee or just looking into it.

 

[GB72]

We still have the joining fee but I think that there is serious talk about dropping it this year. I suspect, however, that the goal would not be to attract people who are not current golf members but to attract some from the nearby clubs (Belton Park, Greetham Valley etc). We can pay over a number of years but I still think that I would feel a bit hacked off if new members did not have to pay and there was no reciprocity for existing members.

The situation that you and I are in though is exactly what I mean. Our fees etc are about the same as yours, which are the same as Belton Park, which is the same as Greetham Valley, which is the same as Rutland Water and so on. There is nominal movement between local clubs because the green fees are similar and all have joining fees. Now, if you ditch the joining fees, current members are left with a whole new decision as staying or moving would cost no extra so, on that basis, you need to be certain that your club is the one that everyone wants to be at before you start a price war.

In all honesty, I do not think that ditching the joing fee is the answer. We are down on members but the people leaving have already paid the joining fee, it is the annual membership that people cannot afford in current economic climates. More creative membership schemes are the way forward in my mind (why do I have to pay for a full week when I can only play on one day just because that day is a Saturday)