4BBB Question

[HampshireHog]

Player A drives and plays the wrong ball on their 2nd shot.

They understand they are now out of the hole at this point, but elect play a practice ball while the rest of the group finish the hole.

Any reason they shouldn’t do this?

 

[chrisd]

If its 4 ball betterball and assuming player A is partnering player B, player B is still "in the hole" and can score for the pair. Player A can take the penalty for playing a wrong ball and still be in the hole, but probably his partner will likely record the betterball score.

It seems to me you're thinking matchplay where player A would be out of the hole and my understanding is that he cannot practice on the rest of the hole

 

[Crow]

I'd guess only if they assist their partner by their play in some way, such as helping with the line of a putt by playing a similar putt.

 

[rulefan]

Player A drives and plays the wrong ball on their 2nd shot.

They understand they are now out of the hole at this point, but elect play a practice ball while the rest of the group finish the hole.

Any reason they shouldn’t do this?

5.5a says they shouldn't.

 

[rulie]

5.5a says they shouldn't.

I don't see that in Rule 5.5a (and "shouldn't" is pretty weak!)
So long as none of the strokes benefit his partner (as Crow noted), I don't see a breach.

 

[salfordlad]

In sum:
Stroke play - there is no constraint on a 4BBB partner playing out the hole even though the partner may likely have the better score.
However if a match play partner is 'out of the hole' or a stroke play partner decides not to complete the hole but either make further strokes on the hole, their partner is penalised if assisted by those further strokes.

 

[HampshireHog]

Thanks for the responses, just to clarify, this was matchplay, and player A was my PP.

My view at the time was he shouldn’t have played a practice ball and I told him as much.

 

[rulefan]

I don't see that in Rule 5.5a (and "shouldn't" is pretty weak!)
So long as none of the strokes benefit his partner (as Crow noted), I don't see a breach.

a. No Practice Strokes While Playing Hole
While playing a hole, a player must not make a practice stroke at any ball on or off the course.

 

[salfordlad]

a. No Practice Strokes While Playing Hole
While playing a hole, a player must not make a practice stroke at any ball on or off the course.

5.5a has no practical relevance if a player is already out of a hole.

 

[rulefan]

OK, got it.

 

[Colin L]

The player who played the wrong ball is disqualified from the hole. He isn't playing the hole and so 5.5a doesn't apply.
He is not between holes, because the side has not completed the hole and so 5.5b doesn't apply.

As far as I'm aware, nothing at all is said about what this player is doing, nothing about the status of the strokes he makes. Is this one of those "if the rules don't say you can't, then you can" occasions? Or have I missed something that specifically legitimises it?

 

[salfordlad]

The player who played the wrong ball is disqualified from the hole. He isn't playing the hole and so 5.5a doesn't apply.
He is not between holes, because the side has not completed the hole and so 5.5b doesn't apply.

As far as I'm aware, nothing at all is said about what this player is doing, nothing about the status of the strokes he makes. Is this one of those "if the rules don't say you can't, then you can" occasions? Or have I missed something that specifically legitimises it?

I don't think you've missed anything. The rules accept/do not prevent a player playing out a hole whose result is already decided - but there is a specified constraint - it cannot assist a partner whose ball is still in play in their play of the hole.

 

[chrisd]

The player who played the wrong ball is disqualified from the hole. He isn't playing the hole and so 5.5a doesn't apply.
He is not between holes, because the side has not completed the hole and so 5.5b doesn't apply.

As far as I'm aware, nothing at all is said about what this player is doing, nothing about the status of the strokes he makes. Is this one of those "if the rules don't say you can't, then you can" occasions? Or have I missed something that specifically legitimises it?

Am I missing something, it's a 4bbb not a matchplay so player A is not out of the hole

 

[Colin L]

Am I missing something, it's a 4bbb not a matchplay so player A is not out of the hole

see post #7

 

[chrisd]

see post #7

Yes, I did miss something ????

 

[Colin L]

I don't think you've missed anything. The rules accept/do not prevent a player playing out a hole whose result is already decided - but there is a specified constraint - it cannot assist a partner whose ball is still in play in their play of the hole.

That doesn’t quite cover this situation: the result of the hole has not been decided.

 

[salfordlad]

That doesn’t quite cover this situation: the result of the hole has not been decided.

This player's is out of the hole even though the team result is not yet decided. I see no rule that demands this player cease play on the hole, I do see a constraint that any play cannot assist the partner that is still in the hole. The last bullet point of 23.8a(2)/1 has some overlapping issues. That example indicates continuing play is a breach of 5.5a and in that scenario, because the practice assists the partner, the partner gets a breach too. In the OP here, providing there is no subsequent partner assistance, 5.5a has no practical relevance.

 

[Crazyface]

Interesting topic for me. I'm regularly "out of a hole" but usually chuck a ball and play it down with the others.

Not sure if the answers given clarify the situation.

 

[Colin L]

This player's is out of the hole even though the team result is not yet decided. I see no rule that demands this player cease play on the hole, I do see a constraint that any play cannot assist the partner that is still in the hole. The last bullet point of 23.8a(2)/1 has some overlapping issues. That example indicates continuing play is a breach of 5.5a and in that scenario, because the practice assists the partner, the partner gets a breach too. In the OP here, providing there is no subsequent partner assistance, 5.5a has no practical relevance.

I'm completely with you on all of that, especially as you say "I can see no rule ......" It was just that I thought you were citing the specific situation of a hole having been decided as applicable to the one under discussion. He can play on because nothing says that he can't.

 

[rulefan]

He can play on because nothing says that he can't.

That's the best rule in the book. Except that it's not.