3 minutes to find ball

[rulie]

I do wear my watch on the course, ie, don't take it off just because I'm playing. It's useful for keeping track of pace of play and being aware of time elapsed during searches, as could be required. In the groups I play in, it's not unusual to hear someone say "that's three minutes" and nobody gets upset.

 

[rulefan]

No watch doesn't equate to not being able to hit a ball or play golf therefore not a basic necessity of being able to play golf.

Being in position to determine your search time is a basic need in order to avoid playing a wrong ball after a search. If you don't know how long you have searched you don't know if you may play the original ball. If you don't think it important other players might. But I have no interest in your social play.

well done lads your at least doing (nearly) the best you can to abide by said rule .

but could do better

 

[chrisd]

Nope I don't have an app for that I have a Bushnell Phantom for that phones in the bag. The Phantom doesn't have a clock on it when in DMD setting.

But it's already been stated phones will be used for a cursory glance so why carry it on further with assumptions about what people use their phones form

My comment was to Orikoru

 

[Wolf]

Being in position to determine your search time is a basic need in order to avoid playing a wrong ball after a search. If you don't know how long you have searched you don't know if you may play the original ball. If you don't think it important other players might. But I have no interest in your social play.


but could do better

Where have I said its not important. I haven't said that at all.

As for being in position to play who said I'm not. I'll play a provisional if I can't walk to it and see it l will move on, as I said at my course a ball that needs searching for is either long grass above the knee or OOB so it won't be found anyway not point even considering wasting 3 mins. Have I mentioned social play no I have not. So how can you liken any of that to a fuel gage in a car.

Could do better bet you say that to all the boys... As for a watch does the rule sate must be a watch, No. My suggestion therefore to use a phone is not in question so again a poor response from and official stand point.

It's quite sad that despite this thread where nobody has disagreed with the rule they've merely questioned how in the rules it is to be applied.

But instead of actual answers we get pathetic responses about fuel gages and watch is as important as a ball. You do not need a watch to play golf that's a simple matter of fact.

Yes the rule states within 3mins, but does not mention the need to time or what form of device is needed to do so. Yet not one of the rules bods can accept in that rule does it fail to mention you must time it or how. That's the loophole being discussed, not that people want to abuse it, not that we want to or do cheat. Yet the accusations persist.

But at no point has anyone especially the keep posting the same wording brigade actually answered the question of how do you propose without the rules telling you it must be done, solve the issue across the country where the larger percentage of people still do it the old way and judge it. All we get back is use common sense. Clearly with the larger portion of the golfing population not using a device suggest to you rule boys something should be discussed, but nope just preach the word of the good book and ignore a valid question.

I've conceded I'm happy to be timed, I will look at my phone as above but I will not buy a watch to wear when I don't wear one anyway and cannot stand anything on my wrists when I play especially as per the rules it doesn't say I must. But still using my phone is not enough must do better D- grade for me then..

Yet SILH mentions his method of for now he will sing a beetles song whether tongue in cheek or not I wonder why nobody has questioned him on that method 🤔 or is it perhaps his face fits as one of the old guard here..

As for further response yep I'm out because clearly having the ability to think independently and ask questions about the rules is blasphemy.

My comment was to Orikoru

Fair enough and in fairness if someone is using phone as DMD no get out of not knowing timings.

 

[robinthehood]

My comment was to Orikoru

Orikoru believes the rules are unfair and there should be some kind of check to see if an advantage was gained before getting a penalty. You'll not get him to agree with you

 

[Deleted member 15344]

The rules are not there to tell you “how “ to do things

You have 3 mins to find your ball when searching for it - why the heck does there need to be a rule telling someone “how to time it” - FFS we are all adults capable of independent thought - how else are you going judge that allotted time ?! By timing yourself !!!!! It’s not rocket science is it.

So then using that adult independent thought again you need to decide how you are going to time it - by using some sort of device or asking someone in your group if they have a device or use your very best judgment with the caveat you may well unintentionally play a ball found outside the 3 mins

So it’s your call - you all know that at some stage you will need to search for a ball - it’s up to you how precise you want to be to ensure the integrity of the competition is upheld

 

[chrisd]

Orikoru believes the rules are unfair and there should be some kind of check to see if an advantage was gained before getting a penalty. You'll not get him to agree with you

I'll not risk an infraction by offering an answer to Orikoru's slant on anything

 

[chrisd]

Where have I said its not important. I haven't said that at all.

As for being in position to play who said I'm not. I'll play a provisional if I can't walk to it and see it l will move on, as I said at my course a ball that needs searching for is either long grass above the knee or OOB so it won't be found anyway not point even considering wasting 3 mins. Have I mentioned social play no I have not. So how can you liken any of that to a fuel gage in a car.

Could do better bet you say that to all the boys... As for a watch does the rule sate must be a watch, No. My suggestion therefore to use a phone is not in question so again a poor response from and official stand point.

It's quite sad that despite this thread where nobody has disagreed with the rule they've merely questioned how in the rules it is to be applied.

But instead of actual answers we get pathetic responses about fuel gages and watch is as important as a ball. You do not need a watch to play golf that's a simple matter of fact.

Yes the rule states within 3mins, but does not mention the need to time or what form of device is needed to do so. Yet not one of the rules bods can accept in that rule does it fail to mention you must time it or how. That's the loophole being discussed, not that people want to abuse it, not that we want to or do cheat. Yet the accusations persist.

But at no point has anyone especially the keep posting the same wording brigade actually answered the question of how do you propose without the rules telling you it must be done, solve the issue across the country where the larger percentage of people still do it the old way and judge it. All we get back is use common sense. Clearly with the larger portion of the golfing population not using a device suggest to you rule boys something should be discussed, but nope just preach the word of the good book and ignore a valid question.

I've conceded I'm happy to be timed, I will look at my phone as above but I will not buy a watch to wear when I don't wear one anyway and cannot stand anything on my wrists when I play especially as per the rules it doesn't say I must. But still using my phone is not enough must do better D- grade for me then..

Yet SILH mentions his method of for now he will sing a beetles song whether tongue in cheek or not I wonder why nobody has questioned him on that method 🤔 or is it perhaps his face fits as one of the old guard here..

As for further response yep I'm out because clearly having the ability to think independently and ask questions about the rules is blasphemy.


Fair enough and in fairness if someone is using phone as DMD no get out of not knowing timings.

But you've been told how it can be applied but wont accept the answer

The rules dont need to tell you how to apply them you can work that out for yourself, there is no loophole

The same rule applies in the USA as GB, you cant know that the majority of golfers dont play to it

You might be content to be timed but that task is not anyone that you're playing with responsibility

Checking your phone is fine so long as you play to the rule

SILH is jesting

You can ask as many questions about the rules as you wish but you are bound to play to them in competitions

 

[Wolf]

The rules are not there to tell you “how “ to do things

You have 3 mins to find your ball when searching for it - why the heck does there need to be a rule telling someone “how to time it” - FFS we are all adults capable of independent thought - how else are you going judge that allotted time ?! By timing yourself !!!!! It’s not rocket science is it.

So then using that adult independent thought again you need to decide how you are going to time it - by using some sort of device or asking someone in your group if they have a device or use your very best judgment with the caveat you may well unintentionally play a ball found outside the 3 mins

So it’s your call - you all know that at some stage you will need to search for a ball - it’s up to you how precise you want to be to ensure the integrity of the competition is upheld

As always late to the show overly critical and missing the point.

You are correct there but still so many golfers out there at every club not doing so and clearly tantrums like yours there aren't making them change their practice nor is relying on them to be adult and monitor themselves 😉

I asked can a club enforce an LR so as to make it common practice, this way or starts setting habits in for wherever they go. Got told no rules won't allow it.

I agree with you LP we are capable of knowing how to I've even stated how I will using my phone, still got told by rules person could do better I'm merely asking how can we make sure that everyone that plays does the same, instead of some of us doing it but others still not despite being told to use common sense .... That's a simple debate yet nobody can come up with a simple answer when there is a glaringly obvious one..

I'm not having the debate how can I do it I'm asking now how can we get everyone to do it to ensure everyone is singing from same hymn sheet.

But you've been told how it can be applied but wont accept the answer

The rules dont need to tell you how to apply them you can work that out for yourself, there is no loophole

The same rule applies in the USA as GB, you cant know that the majority of golfers dont play to it

You might be content to be timed but that task is not anyone that you're playing with responsibility

Checking your phone is fine so long as you play to the rule

SILH is jesting

You can ask as many questions about the rules as you wish but you are bound to play to them in competitions

Nope again you're not reading what's actually written Chris. I am accepting of how I can I've said I'll use my mobile where in me saying that is me not accepting it.

The rules geek told me I should still do better.

I have conceded I will check my phone so where am I saying it someone else responsibility 🤔

I have said all along I will abide the rule, it was you yourself accused me of being of questionable integrity. So let's not go there again shall we.

Of course I'm bound to play them in every competition and I do...

Is it so hard for you and others to acknowledge there are many golfers at your club, mine and every other one around the UK not using devices so other than telling them to be adult I've asked how do we ensure everyone else not just me or you do the same.

Also that if it's such a large issue which clearly it is why then do you, I or anyone play in comps if you're so certain everyone that's not timing is cheating. Surely it's something we can all you, me, LP whoever else can address at our clubs. 2 simple options to solve it one uses the rules and puts a simple must sbe timed statement in for clarity of those that still worth the old method. Yet the rules bits say the R&A won't make the change or allow an LR. Or we get our Clubs to issue a simple news letter to state in light of the rule change that's been in place now for 6 months we suggest everyone actually times their searches. It can even be dressed in the guise of how to speed up play.

That's the whole reason this thread with the likes of Slab, myself, Orikoru who has also said he will use his phone going forward are still here questioning. Yet there are those of you who fail to see beyond your own posts aimed at the poster rather than the bigger picture of how do we get others outside this forum to do the same. We aren't doing it because we don't agree with the 3 mins or because we want to cheat. We simply want to ensure everyone at all clubs plays the same way. Then when someone doesn't do so that's when integrity can be questioned, as there will still be many people at all clubs that are decent honest human beings falling fowl of this because its how they've always done it... Surely you can agree in getting everyone to do something is in all our interests instead of playing the poster and arguing what should be done by individuals.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

As always late to the show overly critical and missing the point.

You are correct there but still so many golfers out there at every club not doing so and clearly tantrums like yours there aren't making them change their practice nor is relying on them to be adult and monitor themselves 😉

I asked can a club enforce an LR so as to make it common practice, this way or starts setting habits in for wherever they go. Got told no rules won't allow it.

I agree with you LP we are capable of knowing how to I've even stated how I will using my phone, still got told by rules person could do better I'm merely asking how can we make sure that everyone that plays does the same, instead of some of us doing it but others still not despite being told to use common sense .... That's a simple debate yet nobody can come up with a simple answer when there is a glaringly obvious one..

I'm not having the debate how can I do it I'm asking now how can we get everyone to do it to ensure everyone is singing from same hymn sheet.


Nope again you're not reading what's actually written Chris. I am accepting of how I can I've said I'll use my mobile where in me saying that is me not accepting it.

The rules geek told me I should still do better.

I have conceded I will check my phone so where am I saying it someone else responsibility 🤔

I have said all along I will abide the rule, it was you yourself accused me of being of questionable integrity. So let's not go there again shall we.

Of course I'm bound to play them in every competition and I do...

Is it so hard for you and others to acknowledge there are many golfers at your club, mine and every other one around the UK not using devices so other than telling them to be adult I've asked how do we ensure everyone else not just me or you do the same.

Also that if it's such a large issue which clearly it is why then do you, I or anyone play in comps if you're so certain everyone that's not timing is cheating. Surely it's something we can all you, me, LP whoever else can address at our clubs. 2 simple options to solve it one uses the rules and puts a simple must sbe timed statement in for clarity of those that still worth the old method. Yet the rules bits say the R&A won't make the change or allow an LR. Or we get our Clubs to issue a simple news letter to state in light of the rule change that's been in place now for 6 months we suggest everyone actually times their searches. It can even be dressed in the guise of how to speed up play.

That's the whole reason this thread with the likes of Slab, myself, Orikoru who has also said he will use his phone going forward are still here questioning. Yet there are those of you who fail to see beyond your own posts aimed at the poster rather than the bigger picture of how do we get others outside this forum to do the same. We aren't doing it because we don't agree with the 3 mins or because we want to cheat. We simply want to ensure everyone at all clubs plays the same way. Then when someone doesn't do so that's when integrity can be questioned, as there will still be many people at all clubs that are decent honest human beings falling fowlnofnthisnsimoly because its how they've always done it... Surely you can agree in getting everyone to do something is in all our interests instead of playing the poster and arguing what should be done by individuals.

Is there a summary ?

And no not late to the party - posted about 18 pages ago , since then I suspect you have added a lot of words 🙄

 

[Wolf]

Is there a summary ?

And no not late to the party - posted about 18 pages ago , since then I suspect you have added a lot of words 🙄

Yeah do what you never do and actually read whats posted..

 

[chrisd]

As always late to the show overly critical and missing the point.

You are correct there but still so many golfers out there at every club not doing so and clearly tantrums like yours there aren't making them change their practice nor is relying on them to be adult and monitor themselves 😉

I asked can a club enforce an LR so as to make it common practice, this way or starts setting habits in for wherever they go. Got told no rules won't allow it.

I agree with you LP we are capable of knowing how to I've even stated how I will using my phone, still got told by rules person could do better I'm merely asking how can we make sure that everyone that plays does the same, instead of some of us doing it but others still not despite being told to use common sense .... That's a simple debate yet nobody can come up with a simple answer when there is a glaringly obvious one..

I'm not having the debate how can I do it I'm asking now how can we get everyone to do it to ensure everyone is singing from same hymn sheet.


Nope again you're not reading what's actually written Chris. I am accepting of how I can I've said I'll use my mobile where in me saying that is me not accepting it.

The rules geek told me I should still do better.

I have conceded I will check my phone so where am I saying it someone else responsibility 🤔

I have said all along I will abide the rule, it was you yourself accused me of being of questionable integrity. So let's not go there again shall we.

Of course I'm bound to play them in every competition and I do...

Is it so hard for you and others to acknowledge there are many golfers at your club, mine and every other one around the UK not using devices so other than telling them to be adult I've asked how do we ensure everyone else not just me or you do the same.

Also that if it's such a large issue which clearly it is why then do you, I or anyone play in comps if you're so certain everyone that's not timing is cheating. Surely it's something we can all you, me, LP whoever else can address at our clubs. 2 simple options to solve it one uses the rules and puts a simple must sbe timed statement in for clarity of those that still worth the old method. Yet the rules bits say the R&A won't make the change or allow an LR. Or we get our Clubs to issue a simple news letter to state in light of the rule change that's been in place now for 6 months we suggest everyone actually times their searches. It can even be dressed in the guise of how to speed up play.

That's the whole reason this thread with the likes of Slab, myself, Orikoru who has also said he will use his phone going forward are still here questioning. Yet there are those of you who fail to see beyond your own posts aimed at the poster rather than the bigger picture of how do we get others outside this forum to do the same. We aren't doing it because we don't agree with the 3 mins or because we want to cheat. We simply want to ensure everyone at all clubs plays the same way. Then when someone doesn't do so that's when integrity can be questioned, as there will still be many people at all clubs that are decent honest human beings falling fowlnofnthisnsimoly because its how they've always done it... Surely you can agree in getting everyone to do something is in all our interests instead of playing the poster and arguing what should be done by individuals.

Not timing a search is not cheating so long as:

You never play your ball found after knowing that the 3 minutes search time has elapsed. We all say the same thing, you should time your own search to ensure that you dont become liable to break the rule . This is where you, and others, especially early on, posted that you can't or didnt have the means, or some posters, the desire, to be tied to a 3 minute rule and would accept approximate timing without query from other players in the group. All of the rules guys have posted that players in competitions should have the means to accurately time searches and this, you and others have argued against. After that it all started to get silly

 

[Wolf]

Not timing a search is not cheating so long as:

You never play your ball found after knowing that the 3 minutes search time has elapsed. We all say the same thing, you should time your own search to ensure that you dont become liable to break the rule . This is where you, and others, especially early on, posted that you can't or didnt have the means, or some posters, the desire, to be tied to a 3 minute rule and would accept approximate timing without query from other players in the group. All of the rules guys have posted that players in competitions should have the means to accurately time searches and this, you and others have argued against. After that it all started to get silly

Finally we actually agree on something.

I've said I start leaving my phone on in my bag which I never normally do so like I say that's changed my view, not for any reason other than showing I am complying. Its dragged on as it became play the poster hence I suggested close the thread. But I am genuinely interested in how we as a collective get everyone to do the same throughout the field hence a suggestion of an LR or newsletter. That way at least its been made known that using the old method to all is not acceptable.

 

[Orikoru]

But you have a phone that you use for yardages and course layout so are looking at it on the course quite often but not willing to pop a little app on it to correctly measure search time?

Yeah but I don't have my GPS out getting a yardage when I've not even found my ball do I? If my balls not immediately visible my priority is finding it rather than pulling my phone out and starting a countdown timer. Obviously the plan is to find it ASAP so there's no issue, if the ball isn't that hard to find then faffing about with a timer is delaying play if anything.

Dunno why I'm saying this again but it obviously hasn't sunk in, I've admitted I can do more than I did so I will have a glance at the time when I arrive in the vicinity, just in case I don't find it straight away I can be more mindful of the time taken. And my playing partners are free to remind me of the time if they wish.

This approach is satisfactory for countless golfers all over the country, so if you can't accept this is how it's done then I'd suggest you have control issues you might want to look into.

 

[chrisd]

Yeah but I don't have my GPS out getting a yardage when I've not even found my ball do I? If my balls not immediately visible my priority is finding it rather than pulling my phone out and starting a countdown timer. Obviously the plan is to find it ASAP so there's no issue, if the ball isn't that hard to find then faffing about with a timer is delaying play if anything.

Dunno why I'm saying this again but it obviously hasn't sunk in, I've admitted I can do more than I did so I will have a glance at the time when I arrive in the vicinity, just in case I don't find it straight away I can be more mindful of the time taken. And my playing partners are free to remind me of the time if they wish.

This approach is satisfactory for countless golfers all over the country, so if you can't accept this is how it's done then I'd suggest you have control issues you might want to look into.

Except that you came into this saying that you weren't worried that the 3 minutes had elspse

So you would wait until they find the ball, and then break the news that they are just over the 3 minutes so have to play their provisional anyway? Wow. And you reckon they have no issue with that? Do people generally want to play rounds of golf with you?? If someone did that with me I'd think they were a tosser. Sorry but that's the truth.

I'll try and put it another way just so I'm not repeating myself any more than I probably have already. When my wife says she'll be home in half an hour, and she arrives home 32 minutes later, I don't ask her where the hell she's been and why she's later than the parameters that were outlined - but I imagine you would. No, in my mind 32 minutes is about half an hour so she was fine. So by the same token, if someone finds their golf ball in about 3 minutes, they're fine, and to my mind they haven't broken any rules. That's the way I choose to look at it, because life is too short to be faffing around with stopwatches just so you can take joy in penalising somebody, when the primary aim of golf, even in a competition, is to enjoy the round. I could not enjoy my round playing with someone who had a bloody stopwatch out when I'm trying to find my ball - just as I'm sure my wife would not enjoy being married to someone who yelled at her for being 2 mins later than the half an hour stated.

So it's funny that these early posts of yours clearly say that you dont think that the 3 minute rule is something you will play to as you're willing to accept time in excess of 3 minutes but now you're saying you'll be more mindful of the time taken but not that you'll whip your phone out of your pocket and time your search. I pity the guys who may be beaten in comps at your place by people who dont observe the rules properly

 

[Old Skier]

Not found it yet then

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Yeah do what you never do and actually read whats posted..

I tried but paragraph after paragraph about how to get people to time 3 mins 💤

You can’t bloody babysit every single person

It’s simple - use something that tells the time , you can’t create LR ( don’t think I have heard anything so daft ) or a newsletter on a principal that has been in golf for years and hasn’t suddenly become important because it’s now 3 mins - it’s the same as when it was 5 mins - just time yourself , every single person in the whole wide world knows the way to time 3 mins. Just do it - simple

 

[Wolf]

I tried but paragraph after paragraph about how to get people to time 3 mins 💤

You can’t bloody babysit every single person

It’s simple - use something that tells the time , you can’t create LR ( don’t think I have heard anything so daft ) or a newsletter on a principal that has been in golf for years and hasn’t suddenly become important because it’s now 3 mins - it’s the same as when it was 5 mins - just time yourself , every single person in the whole wide world knows the way to time 3 mins. Just do it - simple

Like most of your posts then Philip... Except in this instance it was a response to a lengthy post and each part needed covering..

So we're back to instead of communicating with people we will insult them and doubting their integrity. People can continue to moan others take advantage but don't have the nous to speak up and offer solution to help. As always Philip ever helpful never insightful.. On that note as always wit your poster v poster post I bid you farewell..

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Like most of your posts then Philip... Except in this instance it was a response to a lengthy post and each part needed covering..

So we're back to instead of communicating with people we will insult them and doubting their integrity. People can continue to moan others take advantage but don't have the nous to speak up and offer solution to help. As always Philip ever helpful never insightful.. On that note as always wit your poster v poster post I bid you farewell..

🤦‍♂️ - Christ - no one has insulted you , stop over analysis everything, play the game , follow the rules to the best of your ability , smile and lighten up

 

[Orikoru]

Except that you came into this saying that you weren't worried that the 3 minutes had elspse

So it's funny that these early posts of yours clearly say that you dont think that the 3 minute rule is something you will play to as you're willing to accept time in excess of 3 minutes but now you're saying you'll be more mindful of the time taken but not that you'll whip your phone out of your pocket and time your search. I pity the guys who may be beaten in comps at your place by people who dont observe the rules properly

I am trying to explain that I have taken something away from the conversation Chris. I enjoy debating many topics of golf until the cows come home, but I try and take something away from it each time so it wasn't a total waste of time. I suggest you open your mind slightly and try the same. I'm prepared to admit it if I can improve. This is why we talk things out.

The point being I was happy to just approximate the time before this discussion, as that's what everyone else does, but from this discussion I will now be more mindful of checking the time. Wolf has conceded the same. You on the other hand keep hammering away and repeating yourself for some reason.

I never once said I would allow someone who was definitely past the time. I just said given that times cannot be that precise we wouldn't know for sure if they were 1, 2 seconds over.

In the real world, using an actual timer isn't practical or as accurate as you imagine. Example, I get to where I think my ball should be, but to my surprise it's not immediately visible. I think "oh hang on where is it?" Have a quick look left and right. Nothing. I now realise there is a potential chance of losing my ball, so I get my timer out - but an indeterminate number of seconds have already passed haven't they? To accurately time it you have be expecting to lose the ball before you even get there, and in those rare situations you usually ain't finding it anyway so that's when you tend to look for less time and give up quickly.

There are so many flaws and variables that it obviously isn't practical, but you refuse to accept that, in your ideal little bubble everything is black and white of course. I look forward to your next response of "But I don't see why you can't wear a watch..."