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3 minutes to find ball

Liverpoolphil said:
🤦‍♂️ - Christ - no one has insulted you , stop over analysis everything, play the game , follow the rules to the best of your ability , smile and lighten up
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Oh dear yet again you don't understand....

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about those that continue not to use anything.... Its been said in here alone people that don't or won't are being fast and loose with the rules. Therefore they're the one being accused of cheating and insulted.. Try and and actually read properly for once in your life man instead of being so far up your own backside thinking you know what others are thinking... Good night Philip. Feel free to come back with more assumptions

Oh I smile everytime I think about you 😉
 
Wolf said:
Oh dear yet again you don't understand....

I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about those that continue not to use anything.... Its been said in here alone people that don't or won't are being fast and loose with the rules. Therefore they're the one being accused of cheating and insulted.. Try and and actually read properly for once in your life man instead of being so far up your own backside thinking you know what others are thinking... Good night Philip. Feel free to come back with more assumptions

Oh I smile everytime I think about you 😉
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Oh dear - seems you have reduced yourself to derogatory comments 🤦‍♂ -

But well done for a short post 🍾🍾🍾
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Oh dear - seems you have reduced yourself to derogatory comments 🤦‍♂ As well droning on and on , don’t think I have ever seen a rule thread go on for so long and your constant droning is at the heart of it 💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤
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Actually Wolf and I have provided many different viewpoints, while the other side of the debate have just kept banging the same drum endlessly.
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Oh dear - seems you have reduced yourself to derogatory comments 🤦‍♂ As well droning on and on , don’t think I have ever seen a rule thread go on for so long and your constant droning is at the heart of it 💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤💤
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Yet here you are.........
Funny that being called a cheat earlier wasn't deragatory, nor was your comments about other posts 🤔But crack on fella have the last word in your holier than attitude. I bid you goodnight5
 
Well this evening when out I discovered a little strap in my trolley ball/card holder on the handle that I had not spotted before and that securely held my iPhone 5s in position - and I could set it so that the iPhone display was a timer. It was no issue whatsoever to lift the lid of the holder and touch start. Then watch as the timer ticked up to 3mins. Easy as pie. And nobody would know I was clocking my or their search unless I told them.
 
Just out of interest I searched for pro lost ball and this was the first one I could find. there doesn't seem to be too many at first glance but this seems as good as any.
Make yourself a cup of tea and watch how this unfolds.
Who seems in charge of the timing of the search?
Who eventually calls it?
What do we make of the complete faff ruling they come up with in the end?
When did the timing begin?

 
Orikoru said:
Actually Wolf and I have provided many different viewpoints, while the other side of the debate have just kept banging the same drum endlessly.
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Surely that's because as far as a rule goes, it is quite simply black and white. Short of them naming 15 different devices to time 3 minutes on. How exactly is their viewpoint going to change?
 
SwingsitlikeHogan said:
Well this evening when out I discovered a little strap in my trolley ball/card holder on the handle that I had not spotted before and that securely held my iPhone 5s in position - and I could set it so that the iPhone display was a timer. It was no issue whatsoever to lift the lid of the holder and touch start. Then watch as the timer ticked up to 3mins. Easy as pie. And nobody would know I was clocking my or their search unless I told them.
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The issue is, as has been discussed. How can you start the timer if you don't know someone's ball is missing. you could be on the other side of hole completely unawares. the person may not even know their ball is missing yet as they approach where their ball may be. all you can do is categorically state when 3 mins is up after you become aware they are searching for their ball. Not in fact when the 3 minute search should be up.
 
Papas1982 said:
Surely that's because as far as a rule goes, it is quite simply black and white. Short of them naming 15 different devices to time 3 minutes on. How exactly is their viewpoint going to change?
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The rule is black and white but real life practical applications aren't always.
 
Orikoru said:
I am trying to explain that I have taken something away from the conversation Chris. I enjoy debating many topics of golf until the cows come home, but I try and take something away from it each time so it wasn't a total waste of time. I suggest you open your mind slightly and try the same. I'm prepared to admit it if I can improve. This is why we talk things out.

The point being I was happy to just approximate the time before this discussion, as that's what everyone else does, but from this discussion I will now be more mindful of checking the time. Wolf has conceded the same. You on the other hand keep hammering away and repeating yourself for some reason.

I never once said I would allow someone who was definitely past the time. I just said given that times cannot be that precise we wouldn't know for sure if they were 1, 2 seconds over.

In the real world, using an actual timer isn't practical or as accurate as you imagine. Example, I get to where I think my ball should be, but to my surprise it's not immediately visible. I think "oh hang on where is it?" Have a quick look left and right. Nothing. I now realise there is a potential chance of losing my ball, so I get my timer out - but an indeterminate number of seconds have already passed haven't they? To accurately time it you have be expecting to lose the ball before you even get there, and in those rare situations you usually ain't finding it anyway so that's when you tend to look for less time and give up quickly.

There are so many flaws and variables that it obviously isn't practical, but you refuse to accept that, in your ideal little bubble everything is black and white of course. I look forward to your next response of "But I don't see why you can't wear a watch..." :sleep:
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I enjoy debate too, otherwise I wouldn't still be here on this matter.

My mind is open but not to the extent that I wont adhere to the rules because they dont fit in to my way of playing- I would change to suit the rule.i dont agree with your explanation, in the real world I know where the search begins and I look at my timing device (a watch) and I take a look at my watch at various intervals during my search. Once I've reached 3 minutes I stop and play my provisional ball or walk back to the tee.

You talk things out because you posted that you dont play to the strict rules of the game, got called out by the rules guys and are now back tracking as fast as you can paddle. Everything IS black and white in the rule book. You carry a mobile phone when you play which can easily act as an exact timer but dont care to use it because you dont want to be seen as a pedant in a situation where pedantry is necessary. Just play to the rules it's easy!
 
garyinderry said:
The issue is, as has been discussed. How can you start the timer if you don't know someone's ball is missing. you could be on the other side of hole completely unawares. the person may not even know their ball is missing yet as they approach where their ball may be. all you can do is categorically state when 3 mins is up after you become aware they are searching for their ball. Not in fact when the 3 minute search should be up.
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It's the players responsibility to play to the rules, you are not required to time other players searches (although there is nothing to stop you) it's the player (or their caddy) who, when they get to where they think their ball should be, and finds it's not, starts the search and hopefully his timing device at the same time.
 
Orikoru said:
The rule is black and white but real life practical applications aren't always.
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The ability to time 3 minutes is readily available to all of us and in no way is it impractical.

The choice to do so is a different matter.

When you're in your car you have a speedometer, if you're pulled over doing 90 and say "sorry, i never use that, i just estimate", would it cut it?

I'm not judging you for being blase with the rules. I' know I've played games with my old man where i'm more lenient than i would be normally. But if in any comp you simply have to follow the rules that are set out to all of us.
 
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chrisd said:
I enjoy debate too, otherwise I wouldn't still be here on this matter.

My mind is open but not to the extent that I wont adhere to the rules because they dont fit in to my way of playing- I would change to suit the rule.i dont agree with your explanation, in the real world I know where the search begins and I look at my timing device (a watch) and I take a look at my watch at various intervals during my search. Once I've reached 3 minutes I stop and play my provisional ball or walk back to the tee.

You talk things out because you posted that you dont play to the strict rules of the game, got called out by the rules guys and are now back tracking as fast as you can paddle. Everything IS black and white in the rule book. You carry a mobile phone when you play which can easily act as an exact timer but dont care to use it because you dont want to be seen as a pedant in a situation where pedantry is necessary. Just play to the rules it's easy!
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I play to the rules thanks, change the bloody record. Everything is black and white in the rule book but we don't play in a rulebook we play on a golf course and apply those rules to our situation.

So rather than take my acceptance that I can improve on being mindful of the time as a positive, you label it "backtracking". So you'd rather I ignore everything you've said like you have to me? No wonder people don't want to play golf when there are people as pig-headed as you out on the course. Here am I showing open-mindedness and you shut it down as a negative.

Papas1982 said:
The ability to time 3 minutes is readily available to all of us and in no way is it impractical.

The choice to do so is a different matter.

When you're in your car you have a speedometer, if you're pulled over doing 90 and say "sorry, i never use that, i just estimate", would it cut it?

I'm not judging you for being blase with the rules. I' know I've played games with my old man where i'm more lenient than i would be normally. But if in any comp you simply have to follow the rules that are set out to all of us.
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Yeah great analogy, that's exactly the same. I follow the rules and I'm getting a bit sick of people saying otherwise. You're better than that, show a bit of reading comprehension at least. I do realise the topic is a lot to get through if you've only just arrived at it though. :LOL:
 
Orikoru said:
I play to the rules thanks, change the bloody record. Everything is black and white in the rule book but we don't play in a rulebook we play on a golf course and apply those rules to our situation.

So rather than take my acceptance that I can improve on being mindful of the time as a positive, you label it "backtracking". So you'd rather I ignore everything you've said like you have to me? No wonder people don't want to play golf when there are people as pig-headed as you out on the course. Here am I showing open-mindedness and you shut it down as a negative.


Yeah great analogy, that's exactly the same. I follow the rules and I'm getting a bit sick of people saying otherwise. You're better than that, show a bit of reading comprehension at least. I do realise the topic is a lot to get through if you've only just arrived at it though. :LOL:
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I chose something ott to illustrate my point. That being that if you understand a rule and break it simply because it's implementation could be considered a hassle whether intentionally or not, you've still broken a rule. The fact that speeding is obviously far worse or can have worse consequences is totally irrelevant.

To be clear, when i commented on the subject, the term "you" was simply used to describe anyone. Wasn't meaning just you personally.
I'll hold my hands up and say I've not gone over every page and don't intend to tbh as it seems going by the last few pages i'd simply be reading the same thing over lol. So if previously it was claimed you (actually you :)) cheated, that's not something i was commenting on.

All that said, my original comment was not on the rule itself, simply on why those who view the rule as clearly as it is aren't going to budge or offer varied viewpoints.

I'll pop back tomorrow to see if anyone has changed their opinions :):)
 
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I doubt anyone will disagree but as already mentioned it pretty clear that using a hh:mm digital display or non-numeric sweep hand watch (I’ve already addressed the un-calibrated egg timer) is simply paying lip service towards any semblance of accurately timing your search (a feint towards compliance) The margin of error in these devices is simply far too great to be suitable for golfs 180s search time (common sense tells us this surely)
It might make you feel better about yourself but it’s simply acting as a placebo & you’d be in denial that you don’t run a very real risk of a breach of the rules if a ball is found around the upper time limit and you intended to play it. Stop, take a breath, curse the golf gods if you need to then pick it up and go an play your provisional

So if you choose to track time on an external device, nothing other than a count to the second to record the search time can possibly give you sufficient assurance that you have not breached (recognising there’s still a variable of an accurate and un-delayed ‘start’ point)

If you choose to track the search time internally (because many adults can) there will also be a margin of error in your tracking and the risk of a breach as noted above will also apply if you choose to play a ball found around the upper limit of the search time

No one has offered any information whether an internal self-timer or an hh:mm timer or a sweep watch has the greater or lesser margin of error?

Me, I won’t be checking my hh:mm phone display or exiting my GPS to return it to a stick dial (non-numeric) watch. I am comfortable that my typical search time is around the 2 minute mark, I can push it to around 2:30 for a strenuous search if I had to (yes I have timed it)
If I was somehow compelled to continue searching beyond that then I’d stop anyway because I’d know the limit is near so there’s no point looking given the margin for error would mean I may be in breach, and only a timer to the second could've assured me with any degree of confidence (which I'm not going to use)

Incidentally from the decades of experience and unknown thousands of rounds on these boards, how many times have you witnessed or heard about an instance of a club golfer finding a ball with less than 10 seconds remaining of their search time? I have never ever heard this tale being retold in a clubhouse in countless hours of post round chats & its surely the kind of thing you would crow about. Why would that be?

For that matter how many times has a club golfer regaled us with their misfortune of finding their ball after the stipulated time (I've told that sorry tale more than once) Just because I don't use a stopwatch doesn't mean i'm out to cheat the field
 
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