2 sets of stroke indexes?

[Blue in Munich]

Just received a copy of the new scorecard for the club, with some shuffling of the stroke indexes. As a consequence, the 6th at 449 yards & 7th at 457 yards are stroke index 3 & 1 respectively; the 6th was previously stroke index 13. What this means is in the majority of club match play comps, lower handicappers will be giving strokes at back to back holes they are expected to bogey. This doesn't seem to sit with CONGU guidelines as I understand them.

Anyone's club have 2 sets of indexes, one for stroke play & one for match play?

 

[D-S]

Quite a lot of Welsh clubs that I have played have 2 sets of si’s - never seen it in England.

 

[wjemather]

Just received a copy of the new scorecard for the club, with some shuffling of the stroke indexes. As a consequence, the 6th at 449 yards & 7th at 457 yards are stroke index 3 & 1 respectively; the 6th was previously stroke index 13. What this means is in the majority of club match play comps, lower handicappers will be giving strokes at back to back holes they are expected to bogey. This doesn't seem to sit with CONGU guidelines as I understand them.

Anyone's club have 2 sets of indexes, one for stroke play & one for match play?

Guidance for allocation of Stroke Indexes changed with WHS, meaning they are now assigned per the hole Scratch and Bogey ratings (or on advice, historical scoring averages in the absence of these numbers), and without regard to match play. However, high and low indexes should be spread relatively evenly across each nine, and two consecutive indexes under 6 should be avoided if possible - if they are significantly more difficult than the rest of the nine, that may be unavoidable.

We are looking at reassessing after we get rerated this year, and will likely consider different Indexes for each tee set (due to substantial differences on some holes, e.g. different par), but not for match play. There's only so much room on the scorecard!

 

[Crow]

Stroke indexes should be rated for match play as they impact the players in that format.
They don't have the same significance in a stroke play round, if they're being changed to comply with WHS guidance then that's another reason to decry the WHS.

 

[jim8flog]

We did originally bit abandoned it because players found it confusing and used the wrong card.

I think it would be really helpful if they were on one card only so it is obvious.

With 40,000 cards printed last year not something we are likely to look in again for quite some time.

 

[jim8flog]

Stroke indexes should be rated for match play as they impact the players in that format.
They don't have the same significance in a stroke play round, if they're being changed to comply with WHS guidance then that's another reason to decry the WHS.

But they do in a stableford round.

When ours were done for match play the SI 3 became 8 so I no longer got a stroke at the hole. Particularly in winter the drive is so long that only the biggest hitters get past the trees on the dog leg and the green is one of the hardest to hit. I often used to think what is the point of even tee off.

(mind you many years ago I did have a 2 on the hole).

 

[USER1999]

But they do in a stableford round.

When ours were done for match play the SI 3 became 8 so I no longer got a stroke at the hole. Particularly in winter the drive is so long that only the biggest hitters get past the trees on the dog leg and the green is one of the hardest to hit. I often used to think what is the point of even tee off.

(mind you many years ago I did have a 2 on the hole).

Yes, but the upside in Stableford is that you would then get a shot on a much easier hole. Swings and roundabouts really.

 

[jim8flog]

Yes, but the upside in Stableford is that you would then get a shot on a much easier hole. Swings and roundabouts really.

An argument I have often seen but do not really agree with.
It only really works if you never double bogey a hole, except for ones where you get a shot and is really only true if you do not get a really bad on score on the easier hole.

 

[wjemather]

Stroke indexes should be rated for match play as they impact the players in that format.
They don't have the same significance in a stroke play round, if they're being changed to comply with WHS guidance then that's another reason to decry the WHS.

I presume the logic is to do with handicapping and net double-bogey adjustments (and hence is most applicable to Stableford). There is nothing to stop clubs from producing separate SIs for match play.

 

[Blue in Munich]

Guidance for allocation of Stroke Indexes changed with WHS, meaning they are now assigned per the hole Scratch and Bogey ratings (or on advice, historical scoring averages in the absence of these numbers), and without regard to match play. However, high and low indexes should be spread relatively evenly across each nine, and two consecutive indexes under 6 should be avoided if possible - if they are significantly more difficult than the rest of the nine, that may be unavoidable.

We are looking at reassessing after we get rerated this year, and will likely consider different Indexes for each tee set (due to substantial differences on some holes, e.g. different par), but not for match play. There's only so much room on the scorecard!

WHS; the gift that keeps on giving. It will have a far greater effect on match play, so we'll set it up for stroke play.

 

[Pants]

Hever Castle used to have different indexes for stroke/matchplay on the same card. Many years ago now though.

 

[rulefan]

This doesn't seem to sit with CONGU guidelines as I understand them.

Anyone's club have 2 sets of indexes, one for stroke play & one for match play?

Some years ago England Golf (not sure about the rest of CONGU) introduced the idea of indexing for matchplay being the standard. However they did recommend that clubs may think it worthwhile to have two indices.
In fact Australia has had two for many years. The slight difference that every course had to use the same a specified for matchplay which is course independent. I don't know if they will be adopting the WHS recommendation. My club is thinking about it for the next reprint of cards in a couple of years time.

 

[IanM]

Quite a lot of Welsh clubs that I have played have 2 sets of si’s - never seen it in England.

Live in Wales. Member of Welsh Club.
Struggling to think of anywhere I've seen 2 sets of SIs. Radyr maybe?

 

[Oxfordcomma]

We play matches against Sonning every year, they have two sets of SIs. Their pre-WHS card is here, 1 and 2 are the same for both but elsewhere there are some big differences in SI:
https://www.sonning-golf-club.co.uk/sonning-golf-club-course-scorecard/

 

[Smiffy]

Hever Castle used to have different indexes for stroke/matchplay on the same card. Many years ago now though.

I remember that. Got confusing to say the least!!

 

[rulefan]

I remember that. Got confusing to say the least!!

Why? Were you playing strokeplay and matchplay at the same time?

 

[D-S]

Live in Wales. Member of Welsh Club.
Struggling to think of anywhere I've seen 2 sets of SIs. Radyr maybe?

Pennard had two score cards available last time I played there, same with Porthcawl. Here is a snap ogf Porthcawl card from their website with both SIs.

 

[D-S]

Here’s the Machynys card
https://machynysmasters.wordpress.com/scorecard/

 

[D-S]

Pennard scorecard
https://www.pennardgolfclub.com/fil...lay_Competition_15_08_2019-pages-2_1_1_1_.pdf

 

[IanM]

Well I've played all of those and didn't remember ?

Mind you, when I see two lots of SIs on a card, I cross out the unrequired column with a sharpie to prevent accidents!