WW3 -All Russia / Ukraine stuff here please-

[PJ87]

For the first time in this mess, I’m starting to feel similar. Last nights speech he sounded exactly like a deranged abusive husband threatening to kill his wife (Ukraine) who wants to leave … how can you negotiate with a person like that, who’s already armed and killing and willing to take the rest of the world down with him.

Send in gazza and his fishing rod

 

[SaintHacker]

I think most people realise that if they do start hitting red buttons all you need to do is bend over and kiss your ass goodbye....

Probably better than the alternative ?

 

[SaintHacker]

The real question is what happens if/when russia take back Ukraine. At the moment we cannot, cannot get involved militarily, or we start WW3. We know Putin wants the old USSR back together, but will he stop there? If a russian soldier so much as puts a foot on NATO soil then all bets are off. Putin knows this, will he stop at the NATO border or risk armageddon starting a war he surley knows he can't win? Scary times indeed.

 

[Smiffy]

The real question is what happens if/when russia take back Ukraine. At the moment we cannot, cannot get involved militarily, or we start WW3. We know Putin wants the old USSR back together, but will he stop there? If a russian soldier so much as puts a foot on NATO soil then all bets are off. Putin knows this, will he stop at the NATO border or risk armageddon starting a war he surley knows he can't win? Scary times indeed.

I picked the wrong day to give up smoking.

 

[GB72]

I picked the wrong day to give up smoking.

If it keeps going like this, you picked the wrong decade to give up smoking.,

 

[bobmac]

At least we can guess what the next Bond film will be about.
I wonder who will play the baddy...

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I just hope I bump into LiverpoolPhil on my way across the universe so that I can say "I told you so".
He's gone very quiet.

What is it that you “told me”

Nothing has changed - Russia haven’t breached into a NATO country to escalate , they haven’t used nuclear weapons , right now this is what they did in Georgia and also in Chechnya.

this is also the same sort of stuff that’s going on in Israel against Palestine , UAE against Yemen and of course the NATO coalitions against Syria and Iraq

Putin knows that NATO right now can’t do anything without a UN Resolution- that’s not going to happen at the moment , but Putin also knows that a step into NATO country would result in NATO stepping in.

So once he splits Ukraine in two , puts his own puppet in charge the Ukraine will be another Georgia

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

Perhaps it's time for the planet to cleanse itself of its most malignant infection: humanity.
Going on isn't worth suffering clowns like Putin.
Blessed are those at the nuclear detonation sites who will not die slowly.

Aren't we sick of being timid?
Let it rip! Our best is behind us anyway, and in my case, that includes the golf course.

 

[GB72]

I have been critical of them over the last couple of yeears but big round of applause to the BBC, not only the jounalists abroad but especially for issuing statements and detailed and concise instructions on how to access their news reports in Russia and bypass the current blocks in place.

On a lighter note, how come they can work out how to work around a goverment media blockage but have still not worked out a way to let me listen to Test Match Special on holiday.

 

[Old Skier]

 

[Swango1980]

What is it that you “told me”

Nothing has changed - Russia haven’t breached into a NATO country to escalate , they haven’t used nuclear weapons , right now this is what they did in Georgia and also in Chechnya.

this is also the same sort of stuff that’s going on in Israel against Palestine , UAE against Yemen and of course the NATO coalitions against Syria and Iraq

Putin knows that NATO right now can’t do anything without a UN Resolution- that’s not going to happen at the moment , but Putin also knows that a step into NATO country would result in NATO stepping in.

So once he splits Ukraine in two , puts his own puppet in charge the Ukraine will be another Georgia

I'm going to throw it out there: This is NOT the same, unless you are suggesting a football match between two village sides is just the same as Brazil versus Argentina in the World Cup Final.

The incidents you say are just the same, as far as I remember, did not result in the major superpowers of the world, that have nuclear weapons, majorly squaring up to each other (and threatening the use of their nuclear arsenal). It did not involve huge sanctions that will likely cripple one of those major powers, and likely make them act even more desperately. They did not involve the invasion of an entire country of 40 million people, and the worst refugee crisis faced in the western world.

Most people would have said Putin could have predicted NATO would react in some significant way if he launched a full invasion of Ukraine. Many, if not most, of the leading experts in this area have come out and said that they were confident he would NEVER do this. They were wrong. So, to say Putin would not do this, or do that, is naïve.

And, I don't think Putin is going to be able to simply turn Ukraine into another Georgia. Not with the population size, and the fact that Ukrainian rebels will likely be heavily armed, supported by the west, and will cause Russia huge problems.

 

[GB72]

Not sure who posted it earlier on this thread but someone was right, Sainsburys have changed the name of a chcken Kieve to a Chicken Kyiv

 

[Swango1980]

Perhaps it's time for the planet to cleanse itself of its most malignant infection: humanity.
Going on isn't worth suffering clowns like Putin.
Blessed are those at the nuclear detonation sites who will not die slowly.

Aren't we sick of being timid?
Let it rip! Our best is behind us anyway, and in my case, that includes the golf course.

Might be a lovely selfish attitude for the elderly, but it may be worth seeking peaceful resolutions as much as we can for the children and younger adults out there. You know, the same ones the elderly demanded stayed locked up to protect the elderly from Covid

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I'm going to throw it out there: This is NOT the same, unless you are suggesting a football match between two village sides is just the same as Brazil versus Argentina in the World Cup Final.

The incidents you say are just the same, as far as I remember, did not result in the major superpowers of the world, that have nuclear weapons, majorly squaring up to each other (and threatening the use of their nuclear arsenal). It did not involve huge sanctions that will likely cripple one of those major powers, and likely make them act even more desperately. They did not involve the invasion of an entire country of 40 million people, and the worst refugee crisis faced in the western world.

Most people would have said Putin could have predicted NATO would react in some significant way if he launched a full invasion of Ukraine. Many, if not most, of the leading experts in this area have come out and said that they were confident he would NEVER do this. They were wrong. So, to say Putin would not do this, or do that, is naïve.

And, I don't think Putin is going to be able to simply turn Ukraine into another Georgia. Not with the population size, and the fact that Ukrainian rebels will likely be heavily armed, supported by the west, and will cause Russia huge problems.

Just because you don’t see it the same doesn’t mean it’s not the case - and it also shows the level of the Western Media bias

You don’t get to see what goes on in Palestine on a daily basis , and the same with what’s going on with Yemen

And the US highlighted regularly that Russia were going to invade into Ukraine? It wasn’t a sudden surprise , issues and bombing have been going on in Ukraine for years , did you not remember when he went into Crimea ?

And refugees ? Have you not seen over the last ten years the level of refugees from Syria/Iraq.


It’s going to be a messy civil war within Ukraine for a while now , but the west won’t go in with troops on the ground , or will involve a no fly zone.

 

[BiMGuy]

Perhaps it's time for the planet to cleanse itself of its most malignant infection: humanity.
Going on isn't worth suffering clowns like Putin.
Blessed are those at the nuclear detonation sites who will not die slowly.

Aren't we sick of being timid?
Let it rip! Our best is behind us anyway, and in my case, that includes the golf course.

If you don’t like it here. No one is forcing you to stay!

 

[Old Skier]

Might be a lovely selfish attitude for the elderly, but it may be worth seeking peaceful resolutions as much as we can for the children and younger adults out there. You know, the same ones the elderly demanded stayed locked up to protect the elderly from Covid

I appreciate your reasoning but at what stage is a peaceful solution placed above a humanitarian one? That was tried once before and ended in 6 years of where millions lost their lives.
I have similar thoughts as @Ye Olde Boomer but I’m old, I would be interested in how far others feel it should go before we stop rolling over.

 

[Swango1980]

I appreciate your reasoning but at what stage is a peaceful solution placed above a humanitarian one? That was tried once before and ended in 6 years of where millions lost their lives.
I have similar thoughts as @Ye Olde Boomer but I’m old, I would be interested in how far others feel it should go before we stop rolling over.

I want Putin and his regime to suffer as much as anyone else. If they didn't have nuclear weapons, I'm pretty sure the approach from the west would have looked very different to what it does now.

But, for those that want to "let it rip", how exactly would they see that looking? Send masses of NATO into Ukraine to chase out the Russians? I would love to see that, and it would make an exciting movie. Except that, how would Russia realistically react? I believe they would be no match at all in conventional warfare against NATO + Ukraine. They are determined for the world seeing them as a superpower, like back in their Soviet days when they were one of the 2 main big wigs. So, unless the Russians kick Putin out of power and then blame him for a careless move, the only way he can hit back, as I see it, is start launching nukes. Is that a fair concern? Or do some still believe there is zero chance that would happen, if Russia were in direct conflict with NATO?

 

[Old Skier]

I want Putin and his regime to suffer as much as anyone else. If they didn't have nuclear weapons, I'm pretty sure the approach from the west would have looked very different to what it does now.

But, for those that want to "let it rip", how exactly would they see that looking? Send masses of NATO into Ukraine to chase out the Russians? I would love to see that, and it would make an exciting movie. Except that, how would Russia realistically react? I believe they would be no match at all in conventional warfare against NATO + Ukraine. They are determined for the world seeing them as a superpower, like back in their Soviet days when they were one of the 2 main big wigs. So, unless the Russians kick Putin out of power and then blame him for a careless move, the only way he can hit back, as I see it, is start launching nukes. Is that a fair concern? Or do some still believe there is zero chance that would happen, if Russia were in direct conflict with NATO?

Im not a “let it rip merchant”, I just wonder how far others feel it should go before they feel the west should act.
PS, with the current deployment of NATO forces, the last place they would be chasing Russians is inside UKRAINE. And in a conventional war Russia would be defeated by NATO IMO.

 

[phillarrow]

I appreciate your reasoning but at what stage is a peaceful solution placed above a humanitarian one? That was tried once before and ended in 6 years of where millions lost their lives.
I have similar thoughts as @Ye Olde Boomer but I’m old, I would be interested in how far others feel it should go before we stop rolling over.

We're not "rolling over". We are not the world police and Ukraine is not a NATO country. We don't have the right to go in and do anything more than we are doing. Just like we don't have the right to intervene with China's treatment of Uyghur muslims. Where we have got it wrong in the past is in intervening where we don't have that right.

The UN have the right to initiate sanctions against every UN country. NATO has the right to defend every NATO country. We don't have the right to do more than this. That is the entire point of having a voluntary organisation such as NATO, so that nobody feels they have the right to act as World Police.

My hope in all of this is that every other democratic country joins a larger global defence alliance to act unilaterally against this. And that we reach out and educate non-democratic countries in the correct way so that we convince more of them to join us.

 

[bobmac]

My hope is that the Russian people kick Putin out