WW3 -All Russia / Ukraine stuff here please-

GB72 said:
Suspect that I am going to take a massive amount of flack for this but I am finding myself in an odd frame of mind at the moment. I am in total condemnation of what Russia is doing, it is abhorrent, but am also becoming concerned for the calls from Ukraine to take actions that will signal the start of a third world war. The world is giving money, supplies and weapons to help out but this is being countered by calls that we are not doing enough, that NATO planes should be in direct conflict wiht the Russians, today that the American people should be demanding that their country enter millitarily. I cannot even begin to undestand how this is for a nation and the horrors that it entails but I cannot see that the answer will ever be to potentially spread the conflict globally, to enter a fight that only ends when either Russia or Europe, or both, are bombed into the ground. Ukraine has garnered a huge amount of global support and I hope that this has not led to an overconfidence and a hard nosed position in any talks based on a false assumption that the military might of the rest of the world will be coming to help if Russia does not retreat.
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I think the Ukrainian PM is being clever, by asking NATO to get involved, which they absolutely will not through fear of escalating things to Armageddon levels. Later when negotiating with the Russians he can easily say Ukraine will not join NATO as they are not fit for purpose.

What makes me uncomfortable is how it reminds me too much of when we invaded Iraq on false pretences just to get a regime change.
 
GB72 said:
Suspect that I am going to take a massive amount of flack for this but I am finding myself in an odd frame of mind at the moment. I am in total condemnation of what Russia is doing, it is abhorrent, but am also becoming concerned for the calls from Ukraine to take actions that will signal the start of a third world war. The world is giving money, supplies and weapons to help out but this is being countered by calls that we are not doing enough, that NATO planes should be in direct conflict wiht the Russians, today that the American people should be demanding that their country enter millitarily. I cannot even begin to undestand how this is for a nation and the horrors that it entails but I cannot see that the answer will ever be to potentially spread the conflict globally, to enter a fight that only ends when either Russia or Europe, or both, are bombed into the ground. Ukraine has garnered a huge amount of global support and I hope that this has not led to an overconfidence and a hard nosed position in any talks based on a false assumption that the military might of the rest of the world will be coming to help if Russia does not retreat.
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Some, maybe also I, might say that your thoughts are akin to thinking that the West should turn the other cheek in the face of this aggression from Russia and terrible hurt to Ukraine and it’s people.

It’s very, very difficult. But I am struggling to see how anyone gains anything from an escalated conflict with Russia facing off against NATO. Indeed the possible conflagration that could result should, in truth, rule out completely consideration of military (and other) actions that could initiate such a conflict.
 
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GB72 said:
Suspect that I am goisomng to take a massive amount of flack for this but I am finding myself in an odd frame of mind at the moment. I am in total condemnation of what Russia is doing, it is abhorrent, but am also becoming concerned for the calls from Ukraine to take actions that will signal the start of a third world war. The world is giving money, supplies and weapons to help out but this is being countered by calls that we are not doing enough, that NATO planes should be in direct conflict wiht the Russians, today that the American people should be demanding that their country enter millitarily. I cannot even begin to undestand how this is for a nation and the horrors that it entails but I cannot see that the answer will ever be to potentially spread the conflict globally, to enter a fight that only ends when either Russia or Europe, or both, are bombed into the ground. Ukraine has garnered a huge amount of global support and I hope that this has not led to an overconfidence and a hard nosed position in any talks based on a false assumption that the military might of the rest of the world will be coming to help if Russia does not retreat.
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Absolutely zero flack from me! In fact, I have the same worries. Nato, as an organisation, has to stay out of it. I can see benefits for Ukraine joining the EU, though there may be barriers wrt defence arrangements that prevent that also. But all that has to wait until Putin recognises Ukraine's sovereignty, perhaps with some concession by Ukraine re Crimea - and maybe a little more.
 
I agree that NATO shouldn't make military advances outside it's member states but I'm in favour of it meeting Putin's threats with counters that make it clear to Russia that any military advance into a member country will be met with whatever action is necessary to stop it. Running scared from Russia would be a mistake.
 
Son won't be going for the moment at least, as hid regiment is still attached to the Falklands, so they won't be deployed until the endof their 'tour' in case the Argies decide its a good time for another pop.

SocketRocket said:
I agree that NATO shouldn't make military advances outside it's member states but I'm in favour of it meeting Putin's threats with counters that make it clear to Russia that any military advance into a member country will be met with whatever action is necessary to stop it. Running scared from Russia would be a mistake.
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His words to me after being briefed last week were if a Russian puts so much as a toenail on NATo soil the :poop: will hit the fan. My guess would be Putin knows this, and will poke and prod as much as he can without actually crossing that line.
 
GB72 said:
Suspect that I am going to take a massive amount of flack for this but I am finding myself in an odd frame of mind at the moment. I am in total condemnation of what Russia is doing, it is abhorrent, but am also becoming concerned for the calls from Ukraine to take actions that will signal the start of a third world war. The world is giving money, supplies and weapons to help out but this is being countered by calls that we are not doing enough, that NATO planes should be in direct conflict wiht the Russians, today that the American people should be demanding that their country enter millitarily. I cannot even begin to undestand how this is for a nation and the horrors that it entails but I cannot see that the answer will ever be to potentially spread the conflict globally, to enter a fight that only ends when either Russia or Europe, or both, are bombed into the ground. Ukraine has garnered a huge amount of global support and I hope that this has not led to an overconfidence and a hard nosed position in any talks based on a false assumption that the military might of the rest of the world will be coming to help if Russia does not retreat.
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I understand the noises coming out of Ukraine, even if they know and understand why other countries will not directly enter conflict with Russia.

If the UK were in their shoes, and Russia / China decided to invade our country, it would be incredibly morale boosting if the rest of the world, with powerful militaries and strong economies voiced their support to us, and provided us with support to fight against the invaders. However, as we watched some of our cities being blown to the ground, thousands of our citizens being blown up and shot, then I would suspect we would be begging for USA and the rest of Europe to help us more. We'd be asking them to help us defend our skies. We'd absolutely love it if the American's sent troops and their air force into the UK to help. Initially there may be more acceptance from us that we do not want to escalate things due to potential nuclear attacks. However, as more and more cities are destroyed and people killed, whilst millions flee the country or starve in their cities, then I don't think we'd be concerned about WW3, we would already be at war anyway.
 
Dando said:
oh bloody hell mate. Everything crossed that he returns safely
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Thanks mate

Old Skier said:
Most probably in air defence of NATO in Poland if the unit is deploying.
Russian drones have already crash landed in Poland.
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Thats exactly what it is, bit of a show of strength to say to Putin 'thats close enough'. My worry is that if a russian jet pushes the border a bit far, or a missile strays into Poland the whole thing will go off
 
Based on the fact that the BBC live feed on Ukraine has just turned into rusian language and pictures, I am guessing a cyber attack may be in progress.
 
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