Would you buy a 2nd hand Tesla S?

[harpo_72]

I was watching a YouTube video on a review of the Tesla power wall, and the reviewer mentioned his gripe with Tesla and the model S.
It was interesting as the power wall did not seem to be utilised in the same way or what I have read elsewhere due to state regulations.
The Tesla S gripe was, the way Tesla has devalued their own vehicles by just having bad release dates on their model ranges.
You can see in this market that model S’ are retailing secondhand at £40k for 5-6yr models and slightly lower prices for high mileage examples. This is model 3 money brand new, so I can only imagine that we should see these prices plummet further as these vehicles are now outside their 5 yr warranty..
Given this release strategy why would you buy a big Tesla ? Your guaranteed to lose money anyway, but Tesla have just made it a huge depreciation, who wants to burn money like that? It’s like buying big French cars brand new!

 

[GuyInLyon]

"Tesla has agreed to recall more than 134,000 Model S sedans and Model X SUVs that will eventually suffer from faulty displays..."

https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/2/22262072/tesla-display-failure-flash-mcu-recall-model-s-x-nhtsa

 

[pool888]

You have to remember the current model S is a 2012 design, Tesla's first mainstream car and it's now showing it's age hence the recently announced redesign coming out fairly soon. Battery and tech in general has moved on quite a bit in those years. The problem they have is the Model 3 is widely regarded as a better car than the Model S in most ways, if you asked 100 people if they would rather have a used 4-5-6 year old Model S or a brand new Model 3 I think you would find very few that would would pick the S unless they really need the larger car. Larger cars almost always attract higher percentage depreciation as they're not so commonly sought after, take a BMW 7 series compared to a 3 series for example. The good point is the Model S does have 8 years or 150,000 miles warranty on the main expensive components, the battery and drive unit.

 

[harpo_72]

"Tesla has agreed to recall more than 134,000 Model S sedans and Model X SUVs that will eventually suffer from faulty displays..."

https://www.theverge.com/2021/2/2/22262072/tesla-display-failure-flash-mcu-recall-model-s-x-nhtsa

Really interesting Tesla went down the classic tech route and got busted by a battle hardened vehicle legislation authority! Don’t you wish all tech came under such strong governance? I do, would give the whole sustainability discussion more credibility as well.

 

[harpo_72]

You have to remember the current model S is a 2012 design, Tesla's first mainstream car and it's now showing it's age hence the recently announced redesign coming out fairly soon. Battery and tech in general has moved on quite a bit in those years. The problem they have is the Model 3 is widely regarded as a better car than the Model S in most ways, if you asked 100 people if they would rather have a used 4-5-6 year old Model S or a brand new Model 3 I think you would find very few that would would pick the S unless they really need the larger car. Larger cars almost always attract higher percentage depreciation as they're not so commonly sought after, take a BMW 7 series compared to a 3 series for example. The good point is the Model S does have 8 years or 150,000 miles warranty on the main expensive components, the battery and drive unit.

Yes big cars are renown for huge depreciation. A friend bought a 7 series that was on the forecourt of a main dealer. Most of the main dealers are forced to stock unpopular models or low sellers. So he did the car wow thing got offered a discount then went offline and direct and paid less than a 5 series of a similar spec for it. So you can mitigate that outlay but Tesla had a strong market and there wasn’t this ability. So they have some form, and it’s getting worrying that we can spend copious amounts of money for little return .. it’s following an iPhone market model

 

[pool888]

The depreciation on a Model S is fairly steep but that's because the initial purchase price was high, percentage wise I wouldn't say it's any or much worse than an equivalent petrol car especially considering the age of the design, it's not like this car was released in 2015/16. I still maintain the Model 3 has been the largest factor/problem for Model S values, it's a better sized car for most situations, has good performance and range, can use the same supercharger network, and being half the price is much more desirable.

 

[GuyInLyon]

Really interesting Tesla went down the classic tech route and got busted by a battle hardened vehicle legislation authority! Don’t you wish all tech came under such strong governance? I do, would give the whole sustainability discussion more credibility as well.

I read a recent article saying that Tesla's car making loses money and the only way it shows a profit is by selling off the eco-credits it gets for producing EVs to car companies like Ford so that they can continue making those huge (and very profitable) pick-up trucks without selling many EVs of their own. Once those credits are no longer issues Tesla is in trouble.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I read a recent article saying that Tesla's car making loses money and the only way it shows a profit is by selling off the eco-credits it gets for producing EVs to car companies like Ford so that they can continue making those huge (and very profitable) pick-up trucks without selling many EVs of their own. Once those credits are no longer issues Tesla is in trouble.

Maybe they will end up just selling their batteries or licensing the battery tech? They seem so far ahead of every other company on that front so why not?

 

[harpo_72]

Maybe they will end up just selling their batteries or licensing the battery tech? They seem so far ahead of every other company on that front so why not?

It does feel that way, but the Chinese are not far behind and solid state batteries are going to be released soon as well.
There is also the discussion about range, and actually what is a reasonable range plus range degradation in cold weather

 

[USER1999]

The other issue with Tesla is it's American. American cars are badly built, have fragile interiors made with cheap materials, and don't age well. The Tesla may be different but I doubt it, and even if it was, it is guilt by association. Most American cars are also cheaper than the equivalent European car, but not in this case. Bung in new tech, that may not be reliable, a less than great score in reliability surveys, and it doesn't look good.
Would I buy one? No.

 

[PJ87]

I've heard telsa have a chip issue that manages the car and once they fail it's £2k to fix at your cost

 

[GuyInLyon]

Maybe they will end up just selling their batteries or licensing the battery tech? They seem so far ahead of every other company on that front so why not?

I'm sure that's in the plans.

 

[GuyInLyon]

American cars are badly built, have fragile interiors made with cheap materials, and don't age well.

That may have been the case 20 years ago, but these days American-made cars can be very well made and equal in quality to anything made in Europe or the Far East.

Mind you, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, Acura, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, and Infiniti all make cars in the US.

 

[PJ87]

That may have been the case 20 years ago, but these days American-made cars can be very well made and equal in quality to anything made in Europe or the Far East.

Mind you, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, Acura, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, and Infiniti all make cars in the US.

As lazy as the stereotype that French car electrics are terrible ?

 

[USER1999]

That may have been the case 20 years ago, but these days American-made cars can be very well made and equal in quality to anything made in Europe or the Far East.

Mind you, Honda, Toyota, Mercedes-Benz, Acura, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan, and Infiniti all make cars in the US.

I have sat in Tesla cars in Brent Cross, and my previous car to current was American, which I owned for 6 years. From experience, they are not.

 

[Ethan]

I don't like the Tesla Model S and wouldn't buy one. It looks quite shapeless from some angles and the back window slopes down quite sharply and limits headroom in the back. The screen and tech is cool but the rest of it is not commensurate with a 60 or 70k car inside. For Tesla money, if I went for an electric car it would probably be an Audi e-Tron.

 

[KenL]

Tesla 3 is probably their best car and more affordable.

 

[GreiginFife]

The other issue with Tesla is it's American. American cars are badly built, have fragile interiors made with cheap materials, and don't age well. The Tesla may be different but I doubt it, and even if it was, it is guilt by association. Most American cars are also cheaper than the equivalent European car, but not in this case. Bung in new tech, that may not be reliable, a less than great score in reliability surveys, and it doesn't look good.
Would I buy one? No.

Are you talking "American by design" or "American built"?

The BMW X4 is American built and it's pretty damn good, up there with the quality of my 3er that was built in Munich.

 

[USER1999]

Are you talking "American by design" or "American built"?

The BMW X4 is American built and my wife's is pretty damn good, up there with the quality of my 3er that was built in Munich.

I have driven American design/built hire cars in the US, from budget Fords to Lincoln Town Cars, none of which were remotely well built. On the other hand, Mercedes MLs are made in the US and are fine.
My Chrysler was assembled in Austria, but was still made from terrible cheap plasticky materials. For instance, the leather in the seats was OK, but every bit of the seat bar the seat squab and back rest was vinyl to save money. This aged badly.
To me, the Teslas I have sat in feel cheap, and fragile.

 

[GreiginFife]

I have driven American design/built hire cars in the US, from budget Fords to Lincoln Town Cars, none of which were remotely well built. On the other hand, Mercedes MLs are made in the US and are fine.
My Chrysler was assembled in Austria, but was still made from terrible cheap plasticky materials. For instance, the leather in the seats was OK, but every bit of the seat bar the seat squab and back rest was vinyl to save money. This aged badly.
To me, the Teslas I have sat in feel cheap, and fragile.

Chrysler, Chevrolet et al are GM marques and so would expect them to be of "questionable quality" a famed GM trait (you only need to look at what happened to Vauxhall).

Ford's build quality has never really been all that great anywhere in the world.

I have frequently driven my mate's Model S and what I can say from my point of view is that whilst the materials are definitely of good quality, the design and layout makes it look a bit cheap and gimmicky.

But the most important thing about the Tesla is that the drive quality is just uninspiring. It's sterile and insipid. Yes, acceleration is quick and that's fun but the novelty wears off quite quickly. The thing that struck me most was the utter lack of engagement with the car as a driver.

Model 3 is just an ugly, ugly sin of a car.