winter golf rules

[jusme]

Our course has lift clean and place thru the green, pretty normal. Other courses use mats you carry and use for every shot. I have even visited courses that request we tee up every shot to avoid a divot.

Question is can you choose to use a mat where the local rule is lift clean and place?

 

[Digger]

I'm going to guess and say not. I imagine you have to abide by the local rule, otherwise could it be construed as improving ones lie?
A rules expert will be along shortly for the definitive answer.

 

[jusme]

I'm going to guess and say not. I imagine you have to abide by the local rule, otherwise could it be construed as improving ones lie?
A rules expert will be along shortly for the definitive answer.

I suspect the same and told the person inquiring the same, however I wondered if there was a definitive ruling/reason.

 

[rulefan]

Our course has lift clean and place thru the green (???), pretty normal. Other courses use mats you carry and use for every shot. I have even visited courses that request we tee up every shot to avoid a divot.

Question is can you choose to use a mat where the local rule is lift clean and place?

You can only use a mat if there is an appropriate Local Rule in place.
If so, the Local Rule for Preferred Lies must not be in place.

Neither the Local Rule for mats not for Preferred Lies is permitted to be used Through the Green, only on Closely Mown Areas.

If PL or mats are permitted Through the Green or teeing up is permitted, Competitions can not be played as Qualifiers.



Edit: However, you may use Lift, Clean and Replace through the green. Note the subtle but significant difference.
But it wouldn't make sense if mats are mandatory on the fairway. If they are, that would prohibit the use of LCR on the fairway

 

[jusme]

You can only use a mat if there is an appropriate Local Rule in place.
If so, the Local Rule for Preferred Lies must not be in place.

Neither the Local Rule for mats not for Preferred Lies is permitted to be used Through the Green, only on Closely Mown Areas.

If PL or mats are permitted Through the Green or teeing up is permitted, Competitions can not be played as Qualifiers.



Edit: However, you may use Lift, Clean and Replace through the green. Note the subtle but significant difference.
But it wouldn't make sense if mats are mandatory on the fairway. If they are, that would prohibit the use of LCR on the fairway

Thanks, just getting clarification of what I suspected. We do play thru the green but no qualifiers as stated

 

[oltimer]

You can only use a mat if there is an appropriate Local Rule in place.
If so, the Local Rule for Preferred Lies must not be in place.

Neither the Local Rule for mats not for Preferred Lies is permitted to be used Through the Green, only on Closely Mown Areas.

If PL or mats are permitted Through the Green or teeing up is permitted, Competitions can not be played as Qualifiers.



Edit: However, you may use Lift, Clean and Replace through the green. Note the subtle but significant difference.
But it wouldn't make sense if mats are mandatory on the fairway. If they are, that would prohibit the use of LCR on the fairway

Lift Clean & Replace thro the green WOULD render the Comp non Qualifying !

 

[KenL]

You can only use a mat if there is an appropriate Local Rule in place.
If so, the Local Rule for Preferred Lies must not be in place.

Interesting!

At my club we have PL on closely mown areas and "landing zones" on heavily used parts of fairways.

My understanding from the notices posted is that the use of mats in these areas is optional in club competitions and medals.

Is that OK?

Thanks

 

[KenL]

Interesting!

At my club we have PL on closely mown areas and "landing zones" on heavily used parts of fairways.

My understanding from the notices posted is that the use of mats in these areas is optional in club competitions and medals.

Is that OK?

Thanks

Just realised my post is not clear.
We have landing zones on some fairways where a mat must be used in bounce games and are optional in medals and club comps.

 

[rulefan]

Just realised my post is not clear.
We have landing zones on some fairways where a mat must be used in bounce games and are optional in medals and club comps.

To clarify my comment above re mats and PL in use at the same time.
The use of PLs and mats may be restricted to designated areas

I see no reason why mats cannot be compulsory or optional when/if PLs are in operation, either on all or designated (closely mown) areas.
Of course it wouldn't make sense for mats to be compulsory in those areas where PL is operating as the placing constrains would not be exactly the same.
The LR(s) should make it clear where and when each LR is in effect.

Incidentally, has anyone tried the 'Rocket Launchers'? In my club it is about 50/50 but we have to pay for our own launcher (discounted heavily but mats are supplied on the 1st tee).

 

[Colin L]

Why do you say that? It is an approved Local Rule.

 

[rulefan]

Why do you say that? It is an approved Local Rule.

Why do I say what?

 

[jim8flog]

Lift Clean & Replace thro the green WOULD render the Comp non Qualifying !

Why would you say that. It is an allowable TLR
[h=2]Appendix I - Local Rules; Conditions of the Competition[/h][h=2]Part A[/h][h=2]Local Rules
3. Course Conditions[/h][h=4]c. Cleaning Ball[/h][h=2]Conditions, such as extreme wetness causing significant amounts of mud to adhere to the ball, may be such that permission to lift, clean and replace the ball would be appropriate. In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:

"(Specify area, e.g., at the 6th hole, on a closely-mown area, anywhere through the green, etc.) a ball may be lifted and cleaned without penalty. The ball must be replaced.

Note: The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under this Local Rule - see Rule 20-1.



[/h]

 

[duncan mackie]

Why would you say that. It is an allowable TLR
[h=2]Appendix I - Local Rules; Conditions of the Competition[/h][h=2]Part A[/h][h=2]Local Rules
3. Course Conditions[/h][h=4]c. Cleaning Ball[/h][h=2]Conditions, such as extreme wetness causing significant amounts of mud to adhere to the ball, may be such that permission to lift, clean and replace the ball would be appropriate. In these circumstances, the following Local Rule is recommended:

"(Specify area, e.g., at the 6th hole, on a closely-mown area, anywhere through the green, etc.) a ball may be lifted and cleaned without penalty. The ball must be replaced.

Note: The position of the ball must be marked before it is lifted under this Local Rule - see Rule 20-1.



[/h]

Oltimer seems to have confused himself Jim! Not sure how given the clarity of Rulefans post that he is responding to.

As you highlight, LC&R is an approved LR and the general CONGU principle is that the application of approved LRs do not remove Q status unless specifically stated in the manual (the requirement for the LC &P one to be agreed outside certain dates is an example).

So, as Rulefan posted, it's presence doesn't render a comp non Q (although it's rarely used in club golf because of the inevitable confusion!)

Edit - I now see the LR No1 thread has focused more closely on this specific, and no doubt the source (referred to by Oltimer) of this counter view will eventually become clear and clarity will prevail.