Who do we think we are?

[Pinseeker]

Hello fellow gm forum(ers)!

as my first post and i would just like to point out how important(i think) the right golf coach is. Recently i have heard all sorts of tips being handed out from these so called Pro's ranging from "try to hit as far as you can!" to "you need to work on your swing plane and your hands at the top" this sort of information to someone who probably only has a few hours spare each week and loves to enjoy a good round is useless. I play with a wide range of golfers at my club from 0-28 in handicap and i find it frustrating that these guys are being pulled apart with nonsense and complicated feedback. My coach knows i'm not a pro and i work for a living and love a good game of golf and therefore keeps our lessons to a minimum and also very simple. As a result i have only had 2-3 lessons over the last few years and when things go wrong on the course i know its one of a few things relating to grip and posture. NOT swing planes, hands at the top or coming from the inside(things you cannot correct without a trained eye by yourside) ok you may not have a perfect swing but I've played with guys nearly fall over after they've hit the ball but they still manage to hit the thing round in single figures.

I guess what i'm saying is we are all amateur's is this excellent game and are rewarded with that buzz you get when we hit that odd shot. Darren Clarke said recently out of a 18 holes he will probably only stike 3 cracking shots. I think the same goes for us and we should remember that and stop pulling ourselves apart and concentrate on just getting the damn thing in hole no mater how ugly! after all there are no pics on the scorecard and a low round is always pleasing.

 

[theeaglehunter]

Welcome to the Forum Pinseeker, If I am not mistaken one of our senior forumers in HomerjSimpson is also a member at Royal Ascot.

In reference to what you are saying I feel that it is down to the individual and what sort of information suits them best, as some people will inevitably respond better to things that are put simply in laymans terms but others who may also have ambitions to become a much better golfer will prefer hearing the technicalities so they can build upon them as inevitably you will need to do this a some point if you are to reach a high standard of golf / low handicap. It is all down to the individual really everyone will vary in what works for them, although I do accept that perhaps people very new to the game could do with less talk of the more precise intricacies of the golf swing but then again things like the swing plane you mention would be considered to be a fundamental that should be taught to everyone by many. And whilst you can not easily spot the problems you mentioned without a trained eye (swing planes, hands at the top or coming from the inside) if you are given an appropriate drill you can indeed work on them and improve whilst alone on the range. Either way it is often going to be a thing of personal preference, and down to the discretion of the teaching professional as to what works best for each particular pupil.

 

[USER1999]

The problem with golf is that a poor (relatively) swing will only get you so far. If you want to get better than that, you need to be more 'text book'. This is much harder to achieve if you have been playing for a long time with a more unique swing. This is why lessons of a technical nature are very important right from the start. It is much easier to not have bad habits than to try to change them once they are there.

 

[medwayjon]

I'm not into the over-technical side of things myself but if that works for some then fair play.

If I am playing like a berk, last week springs to mind here, I usually know what is wrong and attempt to put it right. Last week I drove like a tit, this week over the last 2 days I managed to hit 12/16 fairways with the big-stick.

I think for a beginner a course of lessons is essential and after that, self improvement and the occasional top-up lesson tailored to the individual requirements of the pupil.

If the hyper-technical and super-analytical do the business for people then why not.

 

[Pinseeker]

Thank you for the welcome.

Just adding to my original post and picking up on your footnote"if only i could putt" this is another area that seems to be overlooked by many. A good practice putt at the beginning could stop a few 3 putts shaving a few shots of your score. Its amazing that we all spend hundreds on a new driver but the thought of shelling out the same price for the perfect blade that is used on every hole seems mad!

 

[theeaglehunter]

Its amazing that we all spend hundreds on a new driver but the thought of shelling out the same price for the perfect blade that is used on every hole seems mad!

You are certainly in the right place here Pinseeker, As far as I am aware the vast majority of the Forum users agree with this entirely and I must admit it pains me to see someone with a £300 driver and £10 putter. I was until recently (within the last 3 months) guilty of also neglecting my short game / putting but I have now started to devote more time to it and have got my first ever short game lesson coming up something that is also overlooked by people in order to have another lesson on either their irons or woods.

 

[USER1999]

The problem with practice putting, is that again, if you have a dodgy stroke, that is inconsistent, then what are you practicing? If you had a lesson, then you could do some constructive practice, rather than ingraining a poor swing.

There is no point in holing putts (or lagging them from distance) on the practice green at my club before you medal, as it is way quicker than the greens on the course, and therefore useless.

Not sure where you are coming from on this?

 

[medwayjon]

I sometimes have a practise putt and sometimes dont.

Reason being, if I putt like a twit on the practise green, that sometimes engrains doubts into the mind before going out on the course.

It depends how I feel on the day really.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Pinseeker

Welcome fellow Ascot member. I sort of agree with what you are saying in terms of many players not knowing the difference between a good plane and bad, poor body coil etc. However as one who has endeavoured to come down this year I feel that I need regular lessons (with Ali - pro at Ascot for fellow forummers) who has changed a number of things in my swing but explains it in a simple to understand language. I prefer to feel my swing in the right position as opposed to being too mechanical. The changes Ali has made are starting to come together (played OK in the Longhurst cup over the weekend) but I understand we are working on a long term plan as opposed to a quick fix.

I do agree wholeheartedly about your comments on putting. I regularly play with a 28 handicapper at weekends and although he doesn't hit the ball great (inconsistent rather than bad) I don't think there is a worse putter or chipper in the club. He simply cannot get down in 3 or less from anywhere around the green and even though I've shown him rudimentary putting and chipping techniques he hasn't taken them on board and is as bad as ever. I actually enjoy practicing Both my long game and chipping/putting) and have got my putting average down this season from 36.3 to 33.25 putts per round and still dropping.

I would practice the short game even more if Ascot would do something with the short game area and made sure the putting green resembled those on the course (which are starting to look better)

Anyway welcome aboard.

 

[Pinseeker]

fair play for recording your putting stats! you obviously love the game more than i as if i play too much boredom and my bad habbits creep in.

Funny you should mention your playing partner has a terrible short game. The chap i play with hits it all over the place and has the longest backswing on earth yet his short game is to die for. I recently bought him a lesson to sort out that back swing as he can actually hit his bum with the club head!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I record my stas through strokesaver2 software. Its been a great tool (£35 one off hit but if you contact SS2 on here you can get it cheaper!). Easy to record your stats on a basic scorecard as you go. Feed them in afterwards and it gives you a read out of how you did or fairways, GIT, putts, sand saves, driving accuracy, where you missed the greens. More stats than you can shake a stick at.

Got it because I was using a pro at Blue Mountain and we had a 6 month plan for the start of the season to try and get down to 10-12 and so he wanted a way of knowing what areas I was struggling on on a month by month basis to tailor the lessons accodingly. He then moved to Theale around Easter but I kept the stats so I knew what needed work on. Putting was an obvious weakness and so I try and dedicate at least an hour a week to just working on my stroke and especially the short 1-3 footers (those easily missed for par) and the 10-15 footers (birdie country)

 

[viscount17]

how many good putts have I left on the practice green, only to find that out on the course all is totally different.

[memo to greenskeepers/club officials - it's no use having a pristine show green if the course is like a ploughed field!]

as to swings, do they really need to be text book? Furyk, Trevino and many others (even Jack?) seem to have coped with their idiosyncratic swings. That said, I envy those with smooth effortless swings but do I want to spend all my time on a range trying to find one or do I want to get out on the course? As a (very) late starter I'm never going to get to single figures but 18 or lower, that'll do nicely.

I don't think I've ever heard 'swing plane' used by any of the pro's I've been to; then again it's more usually 'how on earth did you get your elbow up there?' I guess they teach it but unless you're a golfing techie do you really need to know. I much prefer the 'no, if this arm goes this way, then that bit can go there' approach.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Viscount

I agree. As I said I prefer to feel my swing as opposed to worrying about a 45 degree angle here and my swing being 5 degrees to steep or flat. My point was that there a lot of guys out there who see people like Dennis Pugh talking about swings on Golf Night and think this is what they need to know. They go to their pros and look for too much technical information (partly their ignorance and partly the pro to blame for teaching them that way). Don't think my swing will ever be classed as text book (wasn't even as a decent youngster) but I want something that repeats more often than not and won't go to pieces the minute I'm in contention in a monthly medal.

My club pro has taught me in a very simple manner and Pinseeker has kindly referred me to another pro at a local range who he seems to think teaches well. I'm going to give him a go if only to get a 2nd opinion on my swing and the things I'm working on.

Ironically, our putting green isn't the most pristine I've ever seen and to be fair the greens on the course actually putt much better. Sadly it is all we have to practice with so it is a case of making do and putting (sic) the hours in on technique to take out onto the course.

 

[Pinseeker]

I've been taught to ignore the advice you get from mags or the tv. Strange but it sure works! Paying too much attention to these articles in mags and tv shows gets you tied up in knots and finally having to go to the pro to sort it out. I think there all in kahoots together making us go round and round in circles spending money.

I was given a tip for those short 3 footers by a colleague and that was too take the putter back only a few inches. helped me out.

 

[RGuk]

Welcome Pinseeker.....I enjoyed your first post and agree with you in the main. It is clear (from being on here) that some pro's get into some complicated things....although that's not my experience.
Most novice swings can be improved no end with matters of pivot, plane and path. The fact that you can put things down to grip and posture doesn't necessarily apply to all posters.
As someone who spent hours watching trainee pro's in action, a good lesson improving pivot or backswing plane is often the best medicine. If you take a player that is swinging really upright with a poor turn (for example) and give him 2 or 3 thoughts on how to flatten the backswing and keep the arms and body working better together, then even if there is only one chance a week to work on this, then the next game could show good improvements.
If the pro offers simple un-fussy advice and can describe things in small understandable pieces, then I'd say that was a good pro and unless the student can't be bothered to practice, then improvements will come.

 

[RGuk]

PS

or coming from the inside (things you cannot correct without a trained eye by yourside)

Who says you can't assess whether you are coming in or out and can't fix it by yourself? First rule of self-help in golf in my book.....if you can't read and adjust a swing path, what can you do?

 

[RGuk]

I had hoped for some arguments one way or t'other.
Have I cursed this thread?

 

[andiritchie]

after a while you get to know your swing so self correction can be simple gotta agree

 

[RGuk]

after a while you get to know your swing so self correction can be simple gotta agree

Thank you AndiR!!!

I've been pulling the ball for ages and have stubbornly worked at trying to push it a tad.

Todays effort, straight off the bat, no warm ups.

15 balls, all at the target or a margin pushed.
The most interesting aspect of the exercise was the distance. The shortest ball was paced out at 142 and the longest 151. 9 yards seems a good level of consistency.

I followed this 7 iron test with my 52* GW. Shortest was 92 and longest 99.....even better.

Then, with my 3H.......I was surprised at the results here.....shortest (of 15) was 174 and longest was 196. 174??...that's not good, I can hit my 4 iron this far and much straighter.

 

[andiritchie]

good scatter pattern there from 150 in is where you can make a acore your handicap will be dropping in no time