D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Is he actually "cheating" or his HC isn't reflective of his playing ability ?
If he is playing within the rules he isnt a cheat and not right to label him as such
When Does a Club Take Action
- Thread starter GB72
- Start date
Is he actually "cheating" or his HC isn't reflective of his playing ability ?
If he is playing within the rules he isnt a cheat and not right to label him as such
hovis
Tour Winner
This is why the handicap secretary can't do owt. When you look at the evidence of the score card attached and the fact that he always shoots a handicap preserving 36 then you have to make your own assumptions. I called him a cheat to his face by protecting his handicap. I may be wrong.
The only satisfaction is alot of other members have caught on and boycott any comp he is playing in
D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
So he hasn't actually broken any rules - played to his HC and being accused of cheating to his face with zero evidence at all ?!
hovis
Tour Winner
Did you look at the scorecard? I know its difficult for you to accept this as its not black and white. But he found out on the 15th tee he couldn't loose and then bobbed his way in.? Second place shot 28 and third shot 26.
Playing partners have also told me that when he plays qualifying comps and reaches 36 he starts hitting suspicious hooks and on one occasion i personally saw him kick his ball " by accident" on the 18th and called a penalty on himself and blobbed the hole.
Even you have to admit thats all suspect phil?
swingking
Hacker
Generally though, how many comps each year do you win with 36 points? Not many I reckon. So surely if he wants to win then he will get cut. Also if he's won with 35 or whatever it was and 2nd had 28 then the CSS will be low and he will get cut anyway. Also how did he know he'd won by the 15th??
Handicap protecting I find absolutely no point with? You either want to win (in which case he's getting cut) Or you want to play to get your handicap down?? Have never understood the mindset of these sort of people
Handicap protecting I find absolutely no point with? You either want to win (in which case he's getting cut) Or you want to play to get your handicap down?? Have never understood the mindset of these sort of people
hovis
Tour Winner
No this is just my point. 36 wont win a comp. But it usually places you around 4th or 5th. This would get you 5 or 6 merit points to qualify for the merit final ( top 12) so by shooting a preserving 36 you makes the final and then you walk it. The prize was a weekend stay at woburn with two rounds of golf
And he couldn't get a cut as it was a 3/4 handicap comp
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D
Deleted member 15344
Guest
Suspect yes but cheating ? Very strong words and lack of evidence to accuse him as such as no rules are broken
hovis
Tour Winner
I agree. But it's good enough for a magistrates court to work on probability so I'll do the same
swingking
Hacker
Oh I see. That sort of format (where consistency is key) is probably the only sort of competition where handicap protecting is useful I suppose. There really is no way of proving it though. Despite 3 blobs in a row or accidental kicking of his ball down 18. It 'could' all of happened without any kind of malice. Very hard to prove.
I joke to my PP sometimes when similar things happen but I never think anyone would actually do it as for me the reason of playing competition golf is to win and/or reduce my handicap.
I joke to my PP sometimes when similar things happen but I never think anyone would actually do it as for me the reason of playing competition golf is to win and/or reduce my handicap.
swingking
Hacker
lol
hovis
Tour Winner
I think competitions with this format and such grand prizes prizes will attract this though
GB72
Money List Winner
This is why I think that large prizes like this, or money, or vouchers, should be taken out of amateur golf. If you take any type of substantial reward out of a competition, you are far less likely to attract cheats and bandits be it at your home club or a national event.
swingking
Hacker
Or re-format the competition accordingly so that handicap adjustments and points scored are all worked out so that someone coming 4th or 5th in every comp cant win the overall prize. ie give higher points for coming first so that its nearly impossible to make the final without winning or coming second in a round.
I agree it aggravation and ridiculous in having to re-format a competition to stop this kind of thing
Foxholer
Blackballed
If he's protecting his handicap, then he's a sandbagger - which is cheating (if in handicap events) in my book!
Soooo, the guy's score is heading south. He alters the weights, and its enough for him to hit the remaining fairways. He then just creeps into the minor placings and picks up a few quid. Add to that, his score affects CSS and impacts on everyone's h'cap change. Do you then tell him he should DQ himself?
Two things, by agreeing to not apply or waive a rule you are DQ'd. And what other rules are you happy to waive? I've changed my second point as it basically said what I think about people who willingly waive rules.
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hovis
Tour Winner
I agree with this. Protecting your handicap is done with the purpose of giving you an advantage over the field. But God forbid you drop a ball 1 foot away from its initial position
bobmac
Major Champion
A club would have to have several witnesses to a person 'cheating' to do anything IMO
I was a member of a club where a father and son always played together in a comp at the end of the field.
As comps weren't always fully subscribed they often just played as a 2-ball.
When they did, one of them always played well.
When someone joined them, they never came close to their h/caps.
There were mutterings about the 'coincidence' until a group I was in had to wait for ages on a tee and watched the father and son tee off. The son hit a big slice OOB into a field and reloaded and duffed that. His 4th shot wasn't much better (par 4)
When we were sat in the bar later, the son walked in looking pleased with himself. 40 pts he announced.
Soon after, I checked with the guy with the scorecards and sure enough the son had marked down a 4 for the hole we saw him.
3 witnesses were good enough for the cheating couple to never be seen again.
I was a member of a club where a father and son always played together in a comp at the end of the field.
As comps weren't always fully subscribed they often just played as a 2-ball.
When they did, one of them always played well.
When someone joined them, they never came close to their h/caps.
There were mutterings about the 'coincidence' until a group I was in had to wait for ages on a tee and watched the father and son tee off. The son hit a big slice OOB into a field and reloaded and duffed that. His 4th shot wasn't much better (par 4)
When we were sat in the bar later, the son walked in looking pleased with himself. 40 pts he announced.
Soon after, I checked with the guy with the scorecards and sure enough the son had marked down a 4 for the hole we saw him.
3 witnesses were good enough for the cheating couple to never be seen again.
Doon frae Troon
Ryder Cup Winner
A former Brabazon trophy winner and a Ryder Cup player always love to retell the story of me hiding in bushes watching them as 12/13 year old's who were coming in with 'unbelievable' scores. 
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
Like to think that out and out "leather wedge" type cheating is quite rare. By far the most common cheat is the player who protects his handicap by ensuring missed buffers with mystery 3 putts on the last few holes or simply walking off and calling it a "point one day" when they aren't 3 under at the turn. Very difficult to prove anything but when good players start leaving 6 foot putts a foot short when their partner is "in for the half" in the money match...it just stinks.....and it's much more common than we probably all think.
As for OP, as others have said. You need credible evidence not just gossip. Had to deal with it a few times. There's two methods....either get the culprit in the office immediately, explain the situation and tell him you accept his "mistake" was genuine and advise him to disqualify himself.....or, full disciplinary with hearing, representation etc. I know which way I try to go as the full works is an onerous process and the direct method nips the situation in the bud and usually cures the problem.
As for OP, as others have said. You need credible evidence not just gossip. Had to deal with it a few times. There's two methods....either get the culprit in the office immediately, explain the situation and tell him you accept his "mistake" was genuine and advise him to disqualify himself.....or, full disciplinary with hearing, representation etc. I know which way I try to go as the full works is an onerous process and the direct method nips the situation in the bud and usually cures the problem.
