What's not included?

[Slab]

Interesting reading on the Comp Fee thread that it seems common for engraving/stencilling not to be included in club membership fees (while you'd imagine things like lawnmower oil and loo rolls are included)

Got me wondering what else members pay for on top of your fees?
And how is it decided?
i.e pay extra to keep boards updated but no extra paid to keep menus or scorecards updated... Or do you?

 

[doublebogey7]

Our competition fees run on a not for profit basis designed to cover costs as a direct result of competition. So the fee pays for prizes, trophy engraving and honours board upkeeps. I don't see how this is problematic in any way. Lawnmower oil, loo roll, staff wages, rate/rents etc are covered by membership and green fees as these costs are a result of the club being open for play. I pay my bar bill dependent on how much I eat/drink and would expect the printing of menus, the cleaning of pipes, catering and bar staff wages, to be taken from that.

 

[need_my_wedge]

Our competition fees run on a not for profit basis designed to cover costs as a direct result of competition. So the fee pays for prizes, trophy engraving and honours board upkeeps. I don't see how this is problematic in any way. Lawnmower oil, loo roll, staff wages, rate/rents etc are covered by membership and green fees as these costs are a result of the club being open for play. I pay my bar bill dependent on how much I eat/drink and would expect the printing of menus, the cleaning of pipes, catering and bar staff wages, to be taken from that.

Exactly this, I think. I pay a membership fee, a comp feed when playing a comp and bar/ food fees when eating and drinking. These are all expected, and no other additional fees.

Actually, now that I think about it, we all pay additional subsidiary fees for the clubhouse mortgage and the irrigation system, but these are annual and included with the membership fee.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I think there is a fairness in paying separately for prizes, engraving, honours board etc in the sense of user pays. I appreciate that could be stretched out, why should men pay for the ladies changing rooms and reverse, but I think the comp money is a fair separation. Not everyone want to play comps, why should those members support the comp players?

Nothing else is extra, it should all be covered by your fees as general club expenses/needs.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

I think there is a fairness in paying separately for prizes, engraving, honours board etc in the sense of user pays. I appreciate that could be stretched out, why should men pay for the ladies changing rooms and reverse, but I think the comp money is a fair separation. Not everyone want to play comps, why should those members support the comp players?

Nothing else is extra, it should all be covered by your fees as general club expenses/needs.

Can you explain the logistics and costs involved in breaking out all those items into separate expense costs? Sounds like a lot of time and effort for minimal return. I'm a member at a private club, whatever monies the club takes in gets reinvested for the benefit of all members.

 

[wjemather]

Can you explain the logistics and costs involved in breaking out all those items into separate expense costs? Sounds like a lot of time and effort for minimal return. I'm a member at a private club, whatever monies the club takes in gets reinvested for the benefit of all members.

Sound financial management dictates that clubs will (or at least should) have costs such as these itemised for accounting purposes.

 

[doublebogey7]

Can you explain the logistics and costs involved in breaking out all those items into separate expense costs? Sounds like a lot of time and effort for minimal return. I'm a member at a private club, whatever monies the club takes in gets reinvested for the benefit of all members.

At ours, we merely estimate the costs of competitions at around 15%, so reduce the prize fund by that amount for each comp, which at the end of the year as always worked out within a hundred or two. No costs are involved in doing that, and any excess/deficit sits in the main club accounts.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Every aspect of club expenditure is included in the member subscription (inc. range balls) other than, obviously, my personal discretionary expenditure in the clubhouse and the small entry (£3-£5) for formal club comps - that of course I could choose to not enter.

I am frankly a baffled how club and course running and maintenance costs could be funded otherwise.

Where more significant expenditure is required for course development the club may introduce a levy for a period to cover it. So we have recently finished a 4 (may have been 5) yr period over which we each paid £60/yr levy to enable us to rebuild and redevelop every bunker on the course, including building some new ones. We wanted to do this over as short a period as possible so as part of 5 winter maintenance plans. This couldn't be done out of the subs so a levy required.

 

[louise_a]

our ladies comp fees pay out around 75% in prizes, the balance is used to pay for our entries in county and regional competitions . Engraving/boards are paid by the club.

 

[nickjdavis]

Interesting reading on the Comp Fee thread that it seems common for engraving/stencilling not to be included in club membership fees (while you'd imagine things like lawnmower oil and loo rolls are included)

Got me wondering what else members pay for on top of your fees?
And how is it decided?
i.e pay extra to keep boards updated but no extra paid to keep menus or scorecards updated... Or do you?

Quite simply in our case there is a distinct split between

1) the running and management of the "golf club"...which includes the maintenance of the course, the pro-shop, club-house facilities and the bar - which is pretty much funded by membership fees, income from green fees, pros shop spend and bar takings...and effectively dictates the balance sheet of the club as a business.
2) the management of competitions, club handicaps, trophies engraving, honours boards and associated consumable fees....which is simply funded by competition entry fees.

 

[jim8flog]

Our Seniors take out an amount from the entry fees some of it used to subsidise other senior's functions such as the Xmas lunch some of it is given to charity some of it is used to finance capital projects on the course that the club itself would had not done e.g they built 2 shelters on the course.

The club has always taken some the entry fees for engraving but not as much as they now do.

We have financed club capital expenditure products by a levy for years - eg club house extension, office and pro shop 9 hole course locker room refurbishment, lounge refurbishment.

 

[jim8flog]

Can you explain the logistics and costs involved in breaking out all those items into separate expense costs? Sounds like a lot of time and effort for minimal return. I'm a member at a private club, whatever monies the club takes in gets reinvested for the benefit of all members.

Most of these item are itemised in the accounts anyway so it takes very little to put it to the published accounts.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

Sound financial management dictates that clubs will (or at least should) have costs such as these itemised for accounting purposes.

At ours, we merely estimate the costs of competitions at around 15%, so reduce the prize fund by that amount for each comp, which at the end of the year as always worked out within a hundred or two. No costs are involved in doing that, and any excess/deficit sits in the main club accounts.

Most of these item are itemised in the accounts anyway so it takes very little to put it to the published accounts.

I have never seen these itemised out in our club accounts. There may be a general entry for 'competitions ' or such like but certainly not separate entries for trophies, honours boards etc.

 

[wjemather]

I have never seen these itemised out in our club accounts. There may be a general entry for 'competitions ' or such like but certainly not separate entries for trophies, honours boards etc.

That'll just be a summary.

 

[Tashyboy]

Our old honours boards where your name is in Gold on oak boards have been changed to A4 sheets of paper in £3 picture frames. Am lead to believe there modern and “ with it”. There rammel, don’t even get me started. ?
2 pence on top of membership should cover them.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

That'll just be a summary.

No it's not, it is pointless and time consuming to breakdown to the Nth degree. It's a bit like £6.75 on biros and £3.25 on pencils rather than £10 on stationary. We don't do it, there is just 1 line each for competition income and expenditure.

 

[wjemather]

No it's not, it is pointless and time consuming to breakdown to the Nth degree. It's a bit like £6.75 on biros and £3.25 on pencils rather than £10 on stationary. We don't do it, there is just 1 line each for competition income and expenditure.

That's a false analogy, and you're obviously not an accountant, are you.

 

[Deleted member 31467]

That's a false analogy, and you're obviously not an accountant, are you.

No I'm not but I have been on the committee and reviewed the accounts. How do you know so much about my clubs' accounts?

 

[Tashyboy]

No it's not, it is pointless and time consuming to breakdown to the Nth degree. It's a bit like £6.75 on biros and £3.25 on pencils rather than £10 on stationary. We don't do it, there is just 1 line each for competition income and expenditure.

?£6.75 on biros. What are they Parker pens ?

 

[jim8flog]

I have never seen these itemised out in our club accounts. There may be a general entry for 'competitions ' or such like but certainly not separate entries for trophies, honours boards etc.

Slight false memory I see expenditure is very detailed but not income.

Mind you we have only introduced a set charge for competitions this financial year. The amount is shown on every individual competition result sheet so the club does not try to hide it.