What is going on in the UK?

woody69 said:
Just because you decide to live in another culture, it doesn't mean you should be forced to drop your own beliefs and traditions. If I lived in another country, I would still want to get a Christmas tree and celebrate Christmas (as an atheist!) even if the country I lived in didn't have that.

You talk about "not spitting the dummy", but I'd be interested to hear if you actually have any deep seated religious or personal beliefs that you were happy to let slide because you were in a different country. I would hazard a guess that you don't have any at all.
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No you shouldn't be forced to drop your own beliefs and traditions, but by the same token just because the country you leave in allows you the freedom to practice them doesn't mean you have the right to impose your beliefs and traditions on everybody else.
 
Sharktooth said:
exactly the point of explaining the differences in cultures, history, working conditions in all the continents and races I have worked in and lived in and accepted without spitting the dummy, would take up rather a few more sentences than could possibly be allowed on this forum. P.s I could do it in four languages.
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But it is the DT, DM and the likes of yourself who are splitting the dummy out over a policy of a private company, I here no complaining from anyone else.
 
Pin-seeker said:
But they do know the Pork is in airtight packaging don't they?
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Airtight packaging from a factory/abattoir that slaughters pigs. But what does it matter anyway? They don't want to handle pork, why should that be a problem for anyone?

Sharktooth said:
Entirely correct, I have zero deep seated religious beliefs after being dragged through a Christian upbringing in Scotland. My personal beliefs however... who are you to judge me?
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Not sure I was judging you or where you got that assertion from. I was merely trying to highlight that perhaps as you have nothing you can compare such a deep seated belief to, that maybe you're not in the best position to judge someone who does. It's not just about sucking it up and getting on with it for them.

Blue in Munich said:
So, they're not happy to handle to pork or the alcohol (not that they are, as murphthemog said, they are handling shrink wrap or glass or tin cans) but they are happy to handle the cash that these unclean products produce. That doesn't sound like much of a belief to me, sounds very much closer to double standards. And how are they encouraging anyone to consume alcohol? Customer enters store of own free will, customer chooses to purchase alcohol of own free will, customer attempts to pay for said alcohol, customer is prevented by employee from buying the alcohol. That is not a case of not encouraging someone to buy alcohol, this is clearly a case of imposing your religious beliefs on someone else regardless of their point of view, and that is why this has become a story.

I really am not bothered what religion people choose to follow, if any. I am quite happy to respect their religious views within reason. I am bothered when they try to impose their religious beliefs on my lifestyle, and as far as I am concerned, refusing to sell me a product that I am quite entitled to buy when they are employed to sell that product to me is overstepping the mark.
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Blue in Munich said:
No you shouldn't be forced to drop your own beliefs and traditions, but by the same token just because the country you leave in allows you the freedom to practice them doesn't mean you have the right to impose your beliefs and traditions on everybody else.
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Can I suggest you take a bit of time and do a little bit of reading on the subject to expand your mind, because you simply don't understand it. The employee wasn't trying to impose their religious beliefs on the customers. For Muslims, when something is made haraam, this means that thing is harmful to one’s health and contribution to the community. That also means Muslims aren’t supposed to encourage others to consume in any haraam, irrespective of who they are. Dealing with the alcohol trade comes under the haraam category. The Prophet Muhammad forbade people from all actions related to the wine industry, including pressing wine, drinking it, serving it, selling it or buying it. This severity is to stop the expansion of harm caused by alcohol. So because the manager put the employee in a situation where they would be potentially selling alcohol, they refused and good for them.
 
It's pretty simple.. If they don't want to handle pork or liquor, don't work in a store that sells pork or liquor. If she's so religious why is she working? Why is she leaving the house without being accompanied by man.

Australia and France at least have the balls to stand against this nonsense, ban the hijab, if they want to live here, follow our rules.
 
Vice said:
It's pretty simple.. If they don't want to handle pork or liquor, don't work in a store that sells pork or liquor. If she's so religious why is she working? Why is she leaving the house without being accompanied by man.

Australia and France at least have the balls to stand against this nonsense, ban the hijab, if they want to live here, follow our rules.
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But wasn't this lady following instructions given to her by her manager.

Why would we want to ban the Hijab, young boys have been wearing the balaclava for years.
 
woody69 said:
Airtight packaging from a factory/abattoir that slaughters pigs. But what does it matter anyway? They don't want to handle pork, why should that be a problem for anyone?



Not sure I was judging you or where you got that assertion from. I was merely trying to highlight that perhaps as you have nothing you can compare such a deep seated belief to, that maybe you're not in the best position to judge someone who does. It's not just about sucking it up and getting on with it for them.






Can I suggest you take a bit of time and do a little bit of reading on the subject to expand your mind, because you simply don't understand it. The employee wasn't trying to impose their religious beliefs on the customers. For Muslims, when something is made haraam, this means that thing is harmful to one’s health and contribution to the community. That also means Muslims aren’t supposed to encourage others to consume in any haraam, irrespective of who they are. Dealing with the alcohol trade comes under the haraam category. The Prophet Muhammad forbade people from all actions related to the wine industry, including pressing wine, drinking it, serving it, selling it or buying it. This severity is to stop the expansion of harm caused by alcohol. So because the manager put the employee in a situation where they would be potentially selling alcohol, they refused and good for them.
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So Muslims not encouraging other people not to indulge in what they consider to be haraam, regardless of the other party's view, is not Muslims forcing their religious beliefs on others?

If dealing with the alcohol trade is haraam then how is working for a firm that should have the licencee's named over the door as per the Licensing Act, compatable with their religious beliefs? You are working for a company that makes a not inconsiderable profit from something your religion considers harmful to people's health and taking your wages from that company, directly or indirectly from the money they make from a haraam product. And there's absolutely no double standards in that whatsoever?

Are you sure it's me that needs to expand my mind? Merry Christmas.
 
I'm pointing out that both France and Australia have (or at least put it forward), and that it sends a clear message. That nonsense like this won't be tolerated.

doublebogey7 said:
But wasn't this lady following instructions given to her by her manager.

Why would we want to ban the Hijab, young boys have been wearing the balaclava for years.
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The vast majority that come to these shores are perfectly happy to adapt to 'our values'... We should not, in any way, be having to pander to the few that have no wish to do so... Plenty of means available to them to leave....
 
Doon frae Troon said:
Is that not a bit like Catholics selling condoms.
I don't have a problem with it and respect the decision of the individual and the store.
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I think it's ridiculous. If someone gets a job they should be happy to do all of it, not just the bits they want to.

woody69 said:
This really is a complete non story getting far too much air time than it deserves.

I applaud M&S for having a policy that provides employees with a choice where it comes to their religious or personal beliefs, but the store in question screwed up and put her in situation. I suspect the cashier was more embarrassed than the customer. A mistake was made, but it's hardly the end of the world.

The world isn't ending, the country isn't going to the dogs and it's nothing to do with the PC brigade gone mad. I'm astounded that I'm still surprised by the complete over reaction of people to stories like this.
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I didn't realise it was all M&S's fault :whistle:.

therod said:
Always one :confused:
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Make that two.


Slime.
 
dont want to handle pork or alcohol (through sealed containers) ? no problem we'll cater for that!!!!!P45 and sling your hook!
 
I guess the reason these people came here was that it's better than their previous countries. Was it these outdated practices that made those countries worse than ours to live in?

Happy Holidays.
 
SocketRocket said:
I guess the reason these people came here was that it's better than their previous countries. Was it these outdated practices that made those countries worse than ours to live in?

Happy Holidays.
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Where did she come from to this utopia of free speech, free choice and free thinking ?? I didn't catch that in the article.

She should be grateful we let her serve us our pork based products :confused:

Happy winter festival !!:D
 
therod said:
Outrage! They're breeding!!(It's probably a safe bet, my sarcasm was too subtle.....must try harder!!):thup:
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It would seem that some people are confusing Religion (an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence) and Nationality (the legal relationship between a person and a nation state).
 
Liverpoolphil said:
Can someone sum up the 11 pages please ?
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Apparently the latest Islamic jihad is a form of reverse psychology in which they begin by denying people access to pork products and alcohol.

The goal is the hope that this will lead to massive increase in consumption due to the defiance. Ultimately this will result in mass infidel deaths related to heart attacks and liver disease. All those remaining will be too fat or drunk to fight and the take over shall be quick and easy.

Unless I'm confused and this thread is actually about something that shouldn't be news but has ended up highlighting the increasing ignorance and bigotry that is present in our society. Ironically this is something that many people criticise "their countries" for having.


HAPPY KWANZA!
 
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Anything a bit simpler ?

It appears that some won't sell alcohol and pork but were put in the position that it ended up happening

So I would say that the company messed up by putting those people with those beliefs into a situation that they were uncomfortable with

But I would also say it's not right that people apply for jobs and then won't do that job fully because it goes against beliefs - if that's the case then don't apply for the job
 
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