What is a fair suspension ?

[Neil Grice]

Hello all . Just joined the site hope this post is in order. Following what i considered a minor altercation with my Club President I was summoned to a disciplinary committee of 3 members who were all friends of the President and without any real explanation was given 3 month suspension. This included being banned from the club house, banned from playing as a guest of friends who were members and removed form the club website so could not access my handicap or scores. I was also told that I need to carry on paying my membership whilst the ban was in place. I am now suing the club for this and other infringements, including fees being demanded during lock-down). Does anyone have any idea of how suspensions are decided and if there is some kind of unwritten rules to what constitutes a 1 month ban and what constitutes a 3 month ban? Really curious as is my lawyer! Thanks

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Welcome - that’s quite some first post.

I presume you’ve deliberately not gone into details on what actually happened, so I won’t ask.

I don’t know the answer to your question, but I would have thought it would vary from club to club. I wouldn’t expect there to be some kind of standard that all clubs are required to adhere to, does yours not have a written disciplinary policy of some sort that has resulted in this punishment being handed out?

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I would suggest removing the name of the club from your post. I would not have thought that will help your cause should anyone from the club be on here.

 

[Deleted member 1147]

What happened?
fisticuffs, dippin' his wife, cheating ... come on, we need details before we can advise

 

[Mark_Aged_42]

That degree of severity - can only be a dress code violation

 

[Neil Grice]

Welcome - that’s quite some first post.

I presume you’ve deliberately not gone into details on what actually happened, so I won’t ask.

I don’t know the answer to your question, but I would have thought it would vary from club to club. I wouldn’t expect there to be some kind of standard that all clubs are required to adhere to, does yours not have a written disciplinary policy of some sort that has resulted in this punishment being handed out?

Welcome - that’s quite some first post.

I presume you’ve deliberately not gone into details on what actually happened, so I won’t ask.

I don’t know the answer to your question, but I would have thought it would vary from club to club. I wouldn’t expect there to be some kind of standard that all clubs are required to adhere to, does yours not have a written disciplinary policy of some sort that has resulted in this punishment being handed out?

Welcome - that’s quite some first post.

I presume you’ve deliberately not gone into details on what actually happened, so I won’t ask.

I don’t know the answer to your question, but I would have thought it would vary from club to club. I wouldn’t expect there to be some kind of standard that all clubs are required to adhere to, does yours not have a written disciplinary policy of some sort that has resulted in this punishment being handed out?

Thank you for this. There is no mention in the clubs constitution as to what a suspension should be so I was just wondering if there may be an unwritten rule. General opinion was it was harsh as it was in a private email not a public spat also the fact that the committee was made up of friends rather than being independent seems a touch unfair. Only didn't go into details as it would be most boring. I suspect you are right in it varying but not sure why it should be. Thanks for the response.

 

[Neil Grice]

I would suggest removing the name of the club from your post. I would not have thought that will help your cause should anyone from the club be on here.

Checked. I am not obliged to protect the name of the club and everything I have said is factual. In some ways it would be nice if they engaged with me as I am currently being completely ignored. Just trying to gauge opinion as to severity, seems to be a fairly arbitrary field.

 

[Canary_Yellow]

Do you think there should be no suspension at all? Or just a lesser one?

 

[Neil Grice]

What happened?
fisticuffs, dippin' his wife, cheating ... come on, we need details before we can advise

Nothing quite so fun alas... Was told that the club had a legal letter saying fees must be paid during lock down, I asked as a member to see the letter was told it was private and it was not being shown to members.. Ended up in a private email to the President with me suggesting that he hadn't told the truth and was now hiding (a little more colorful to be fair).

 

[Neil Grice]

Do you think there should be no suspension at all? Or just a lesser one?

Do you think there should be no suspension at all? Or just a lesser one?

Do you think there should be no suspension at all? Or just a lesser one?

Fair question. I would have I think accepted 1 month just to be done, but it also seems penal to demand fees whilst suspended and also that i could not play as a guest and locking me out of the website. General view is that this morphed from harsh to vindictive.. Just trying to quantify.

 

[Bdill93]

Does the time fit the crime?

If you've just questioned their actions during lockdown and theyve decided to ban you then it seems a bit OTT. However, if you full on went at them in your first approach to them for information, and they felt like you were overly aggressive, then to be honest a short ban might suffice.

Personally, as I havent played long, I'd leave that golf club, cancel my DD and tell them where to stick it if thats how they treat members that ask questions. A 3 month ban for any email, no matter how abusive is ridiculous, and I certainly wouldnt keep paying my membership fee during the ban. Are they having a laugh?!

 

[Papas1982]

Ok.
So basically you broke or wanted to break your obligation to pay your membership. then didn’t like the response you got.

Without more details, I’m siding with the club here.

 

[Neil Grice]

Does the time fit the crime?

If you've just questioned their actions during lockdown and theyve decided to ban you then it seems a bit OTT. However, if you full on went at them in your first approach to them for information, and they felt like you were overly aggressive, then to be honest a short ban might suffice.

Personally, as I havent played long, I'd leave that golf club, cancel my DD and tell them where to stick it if thats how they treat members that ask questions. A 3 month ban for any email, no matter how abusive is ridiculous, and I certainly wouldnt keep paying my membership fee during the ban. Are they having a laugh?!

Was my first thought but it is a 2 course club only one in my area plus all my mates play there so I wondered why i should have to leave.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

Checked. I am not obliged to protect the name of the club and everything I have said is factual. In some ways it would be nice if they engaged with me as I am currently being completely ignored. Just trying to gauge opinion as to severity, seems to be a fairly arbitrary field.

Up to you regarding naming the club. You are putting yourself out there by doing that though and may add to the file of offences the club have on you.

In terms of disciplinary action, Canary Yellow has it right. It depends on the policy at the club. It is also impossible to say a great deal more without full disclosure. I'm not asking for that, it really should be between you and the club imo.

 

[Neil Grice]

Ok.
So basically you broke or wanted to break your obligation to pay your membership. then didn’t like the response you got.

Without more details, I’m siding with the club here.

Not quite. I was merely responding to what was generally accepted was an aggressive email from the club saying everybody had to pay during lock down which they received a lot of complaints about. I had a zoom call with the President and Club general manager ( very civil) when they told me that the reason why they had sent out the email was they had a bona fida letter from a lawyer saying they could. All I did was ask to see the letter. I never suggested I wasn't going to pay just wanted clarification as to how they had arrived at believing we had no option but to pay.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Does the time fit the crime?

If you've just questioned their actions during lockdown and theyve decided to ban you then it seems a bit OTT. However, if you full on went at them in your first approach to them for information, and they felt like you were overly aggressive, then to be honest a short ban might suffice.

Personally, as I havent played long, I'd leave that golf club, cancel my DD and tell them where to stick it if thats how they treat members that ask questions. A 3 month ban for any email, no matter how abusive is ridiculous, and I certainly wouldnt keep paying my membership fee during the ban. Are they having a laugh?!

Be aware that if a DD or other regular payment scheme is set up to pay your annual membership fee in instalments, then it is quite possible that you remain liable for the full amount that is outstanding if you choose to leave. If membership is on a month-by-month basis (unlikely) then that liability may not apply.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Can an admin or OP please delete the club name references.

It is going to cause you further problems.

EDIT Your club will have a policy with regards to internet/social media usage...and you are falling foul of it.

 

[Neil Grice]

Can an admin or OP please delete the club references.

It is going to cause you further problems.

I would prefer if it wasn't ( although will accept if admin think it better) . I am happy to stand by anything that is said and the club can of course defend itself. I thought it would be helpful so any members of the club could remove themselves from the debate. The claim is in the public domain I assure you.

 

[Orikoru]

Three months suspension seems harsh for what you've described. Of course, we only have your side. I wouldn't be paying fees during an arbitrary suspension like that, but if you have any thoughts of actually returning to the club (can't see it myself after taking legal action) then you'd have to.

I don't think there's any standard or recommended list of suspensions for different offences, each golf club would have their own standards on that I should think.

Payment of fees during lockdown was quite a hot topic as I recall. A lot were unwilling or unable to keep paying during a potentially difficult time when they weren't able to play any golf. Others pointed out that if people didn't pay fees there wouldn't be any clubs to come back to. No right or wrong answer as it depended on everyone's personal circumstances in my opinion. But if they're claiming you legally have to pay those fees - I don't think it's all unreasonable to ask to see that legal justification. Particularly, as I said, when people were losing their jobs or being furloughed and having to think about what's important financially.

 

[Deleted member 21258]

Ok.
So basically you broke or wanted to break your obligation to pay your membership. then didn’t like the response you got.

Without more details, I’m siding with the club here.

Yeah agreed.

And why would you send a more colourful email to any club official.

Its not hard to see why action was taken.

Why I would think you have been given details of, but you have not posted the club version of events.