What if Bunker Rakes were banned indefinitely?

[Deleted member 21258]

If rakes were banned, that would be it for me, the final straw, I'd give up golf

 

[Slab]

Slab, it's a non-essential item for day to day living, hence golf is making sure it's being seen to be taking all necessary procedures for eliminating the risk of spreading.
Shopping baskets and trollies are a necessary evil and not just an optional part of a hobby.

Just like thousands of other non essential items we share
What about the shoe brush at the clubhouse or the air-gun, clubhouse changing rooms, salt shaker on the table in the clubhouse. Like the rake are we to remove/ban these items from use.... or instead might there be a safe way for us to share them & perhaps that where our efforts should be directed before we start threads talking about banning rakes

 

[Mandofred]

Just like thousands of other non essential items we share
What about the shoe brush at the clubhouse or the air-gun, clubhouse changing rooms, salt shaker on the table in the clubhouse.

Uhhh....I thought all those things were banned....which is why the clubhouse is closed. At least for now, the less things you touch that other people touch the better. I wouldn't think the clubhouse etc are just going to go back to "normal" any time soon.

 

[patricks148]

i doubt it would make much difference, we always seem to play behind a load of buggers who don't rake anyway

 

[need_my_wedge]

At the moment our club advice is to use your feet or club to try and smooth over the bunker where you have been, but this has clearly fallen on deaf ears as the volume of footprints I see in bunkers this week means more than one or two ignoring the advice.

If you're in a heel mark, take the preferred lie, and then smooth over after playing, simples.

 

[backwoodsman]

There seems to be mass hysteria about touching things these days.

Yes, touching shared/multi- use items is a means of viral transfer, but the real risk lies in objects that are very frequently touched by large numbers of people without being cleaned. Even in the current circumstances, I'd suggest that bunker rakes are a very low risk as a source of transmission. After all, how many times in a day is a particular rake touched. And, of those few who do touch it, how many are actually infected? Yes, of course its a possible source of transmission. But one with a very low likelihood.

Bunker rakes - and indeed flagsticks, and tins of beans on supermarket shelves - are way down on my list of things to be concerned about. The chance of it having been touched by an infected person is extremely low. If they were present on the course, I'd happily use one. But of course I wouldnt, because I'd not want to fuel the hysteria further.

 

[Grant85]

Ultimately golf is a recreation. Shops are not. Hence it is reasonable that golf goes further to dispense with unnecessary contamination risks.

If we lived in this permanent state of flirting between stages of green, amber and red... rakes would be something that could realistically be done away with.

Personally would want to avoid the personal rake being a requirement. It's something else to faff with and will obviously take a lot longer to rake as well with a smaller tool.

I'd favour preferred lies over a personal rake, but would much rather just have 'play it as it lies' for simplicity (which I guess would require no official rule changes).

Things like shoe cleaners, touching flags, ball cleaners, using the clubhouse, bar, lockers etc. are all not 100% essential if someone didn't want to touch them, they wouldn't have to and could still play. And we MUST be able to come up with a workable way of submitting scores that avoids using a central touch screen (i.e. an app) and the playing partner verifying the score (I guess would require a rule change).

If this does develop into permanent risk situation, we could move to a place where people assess their own risk and people in vulnerable groups might decide to take fewer risks in terms of contacting other people, travelling, going to busy places etc. so it would be good if golf could work effectively to ensure people can play with minimal or no risk rather than just assume that things will go back to normal.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

I'm happy for golf to be back and i don't mind the steps being taken, but I can understand the blunt point being made.

Chances of catching Covid 19 from an object is incredibly low, reduced even more for something like a rake (outside, infrequent use, likely to hold a different part). So in due course, maybe it would work for golf clubs to allow all "furniture" to be used e.g. rakes, flag stick, ball washers as those who want to use them can simply do so and then keep a hand gel (over 60% alcohol content) in their bag to clean their hands after use. Now stock is more freely available then that would seem a longer term practical solution and probably more effective as it would increase the amount of times hands are washed/sanitised.

 

[jim8flog]

I have played several municipal courses that did not have rakes!!

One tried to have them but they kept being nicked by the scrotes on the adjoining estate.

We have two holes where we have to retrieve them quite often from the nearby woods where the kids (and adults) gather to do their stunt biking. (PS no social distancing amongst them at the weekend).

 

[slowhand]

I have played several municipal courses that did not have rakes!!

One tried to have them but they kept being nicked by the scrotes on the adjoining estate.

We have two holes where we have to retrieve them quite often from the nearby woods where the kids (and adults) gather to do their stunt biking. (PS no social distancing amongst them at the weekend).

We suffer from this as well. Although, with the miniscule amount of sand in the bunkers anyway, not sure why we even bother with rakes!

 

[GB72]

I suppose that golf has the advantage that pretty much everything that you touch can be brought with you be it a portable rake, stuff to clean your golf ball during a round, a brush to get the mud off your shoes etc. Only problem is that it would not be long before big manufacturers picked up on this and started charging three times as much just by calling it a golf accessory

With regards the comparison to trolleys at supermarkets, the ones near me have people wiping them down before passing them to the next customer but I cannot see clubs having rake monitors.

Personally, I like the idea of playing it as it lies and making bunkers more of a hazard. The only issue there is that it benefits earlier groups out in competitions if the bunker is raked every morning before the first tee time.

 

[jim8flog]

And we MUST be able to come up with a workable way of submitting scores that avoids using a central touch screen (i.e. an app) and the playing partner verifying the score (I guess would require a rule change).

The apps are already here if your club has the right software and the rule change came in before lock down about markers not having to sign or touch another players card.

It is just up to clubs to implement the changes

.

 

[slowhand]

I suppose that golf has the advantage that pretty much everything that you touch can be brought with you be it a portable rake, stuff to clean your golf ball during a round, a brush to get the mud off your shoes etc. Only problem is that it would not be long before big manufacturers picked up on this and started charging three times as much just by calling it a golf accessory

With regards the comparison to trolleys at supermarkets, the ones near me have people wiping them down before passing them to the next customer but I cannot see clubs having rake monitors.

Personally, I like the idea of playing it as it lies and making bunkers more of a hazard. The only issue there is that it benefits earlier groups out in competitions if the bunker is raked every morning before the first tee time.

New job at the club - bunker mucker.
Your job is to go out ahead of the first group and stamp footprints all over every bunker on the course

 

[GB72]

The problem with scorecards is that any solution is going to need technology. So as there is no sharing, it would probably need to be a phone app rather than a custom device and so it needs developing, testing, approving by both google and apple, it needs everyone to have a phone up to spec to use it, it needs everyone to understand how to use it, it needs to be quick and simple so as not to cause hold ups....... oh and it has to be free as I cannot see people willingly paying an up front cost or subscription for it (but you could not easily have advertising as it clutters the screen or causes delay whilst the advert is closed). There would also need to be a standard operating system so as it speaks to the overall database of scores. Suddenly does not sound so easy. Not impossible but a very big initial outlay to get the system up and running.

Ideal system would link to the GPS and would simply ask that you input a score for you and the person you are scoring for as you reach the next tee box, just as your GPS switches holes automatically

 

[inc0gnito]

It’s not going to happen. But if it did, the bunkers would be replaced by natural hazards. I’ve seen pictures on Instagram with these. Basically they are bunkers made out of thick rough.

 

[Sports_Fanatic]

The problem with scorecards is that any solution is going to need technology. So as there is no sharing, it would probably need to be a phone app rather than a custom device and so it needs developing, testing, approving by both google and apple, it needs everyone to have a phone up to spec to use it, it needs everyone to understand how to use it, it needs to be quick and simple so as not to cause hold ups....... oh and it has to be free as I cannot see people willingly paying an up front cost or subscription for it (but you could not easily have advertising as it clutters the screen or causes delay whilst the advert is closed). There would also need to be a standard operating system so as it speaks to the overall database of scores. Suddenly does not sound so easy. Not impossible but a very big initial outlay to get the system up and running.

Ideal system would link to the GPS and would simply ask that you input a score for you and the person you are scoring for as you reach the next tee box, just as your GPS switches holes automatically

Paper card, marker picks up card (ideally each player keeps a collection in bag) and fills out without the other player touching it. Other player does the same with their card. Each recording both so it tallies. In clubhouse, swap and sign at a designated station and post in the box. Hand sanitiser next to said box so both immediately sanitise hands (a fairly extra measure). Scorecards all left in box for a day/two days (again very cautious given studies), and then secretary just goes about their business as normal. Potentially need two boxes so you can switch between days if multiple comps.

I do think like rakes we are making a mountain out of a molehill on a few of these things. Fully understand doing it now to keep sensible behaviour, ease back into golf, but if cases keep dropping then I don't see why these measures need to be kept in a months time, particularly as we'll be getting close to clubhouse opening.

 

[Grant85]

The problem with scorecards is that any solution is going to need technology. So as there is no sharing, it would probably need to be a phone app rather than a custom device and so it needs developing, testing, approving by both google and apple, it needs everyone to have a phone up to spec to use it, it needs everyone to understand how to use it, it needs to be quick and simple so as not to cause hold ups....... oh and it has to be free as I cannot see people willingly paying an up front cost or subscription for it (but you could not easily have advertising as it clutters the screen or causes delay whilst the advert is closed). There would also need to be a standard operating system so as it speaks to the overall database of scores. Suddenly does not sound so easy. Not impossible but a very big initial outlay to get the system up and running.

Ideal system would link to the GPS and would simply ask that you input a score for you and the person you are scoring for as you reach the next tee box, just as your GPS switches holes automatically

I don't think it's that difficult. Dozens of apps are released every day. You are making a complete mountain out of very simple technology that has already existed for a decade.

The entire US handicap system is managed via scores being added on a smartphone app.

Scoring apps already exist and I'm sure a company (or national golf unions) would be happy to develop and manage an app and charge clubs a reasonable fee to access it, or possibly give clubs a lower cost option with a bit of advertising. Do clubs currently pay HDiD?
Clubs already buy at least 10,000 scorecards a year, and this would replace scorecards (or at least massively reduce their use).

Yes - people would need smartphones... so what? nearly everyone has one and basic smartphone's aren't that expensive (especially for people with a golf membership) and if you don't have one or get one... guess what, you don't get to play in medals and have a handicap.

As long as clubs have backup scorecards and wifi.
Even if someone's phone runs out of battery, backup plan is they can go home and charge or input score on a terminal (but use of this is massively reduced and now not compulsory).

 

[Foxholer]

You really don't want to.

Except for a couple - at least last time I looked as it's been a while!

 

[Grant85]

Paper card, marker picks up card (ideally each player keeps a collection in bag) and fills out without the other player touching it. Other player does the same with their card. Each recording both so it tallies. In clubhouse, swap and sign at a designated station and post in the box. Hand sanitiser next to said box so both immediately sanitise hands (a fairly extra measure). Scorecards all left in box for a day/two days (again very cautious given studies), and then secretary just goes about their business as normal. Potentially need two boxes so you can switch between days if multiple comps.

I do think like rakes we are making a mountain out of a molehill on a few of these things. Fully understand doing it now to keep sensible behaviour, ease back into golf, but if cases keep dropping then I don't see why these measures need to be kept in a months time, particularly as we'll be getting close to clubhouse opening.

Thing is the paper card bit is just totally not required.
It's just something that creates extra admin for a club and there is obviously double counting with people submitting their score electronically, as well as via a card.

Does a handicap sec even check every card?
Do they really go through 180 cards to make sure everyone filled 18 scores out and added everything up correctly and signed in the correct boxes?
I'm sure they don't.
They'll check the winners and those getting cash.

 

[Maninblack4612]

When I started playing there were no bunker rakes, you smoothed out the bunker with your club & that was good enough. I don't understand this obsession with having a perfect lie in a bunker. You don't get a perfect lie every time you visit the rough, the rub of the green is part of the game.

There are many more important things to think about.