What determines unplayable lie?

[drew83]

Ok, so a real "newbie" thread.....but.

What is an unplayable lie? Is it:

1) A ball stuck in the middle of a tree stump that you can't get near?
2) A ball sat under a tree branch in such a way you are unable to swing at it?
3) A ball coming to rest in long rough that will be a right pain to chop out of?
4) Any ball that is unlikely to allow a nice clean sweep toward the green? (i.e all of the above & others)

Only I have been in long rough before with 2-3 or sometimes 4 shots to just get it back to the fairway 10 ft away. If I am missing a chance of "relief" or moving the ball under a 1 shot penalty then I can see my scorecard looking a bit nicer.

As I say, apologies for a noob question, but reading another thread got me thinking I may be doing myself out of a reasonable score.

Also, googled this & found rule 28? That with a 1 stroke penalty I can either:

• play a ball from where your last shot was played, or
• drop a ball any distance behind the point where the ball lay keeping a straight line between the hole, the point where the ball lay and the spot on which the ball is dropped, or
• drop a ball within two club-lengths of where the ball lies not nearer the hole.

Have I read this right?

So drive to rough, find ball in long grass, pick up & drop back 10ft to fairway, iron to green, 2 putt would result in a 5?

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ok, so a real "newbie" thread.....but.

What is an unplayable lie? Is it:

1) A ball stuck in the middle of a tree stump that you can't get near?
2) A ball sat under a tree branch in such a way you are unable to swing at it?
3) A ball coming to rest in long rough that will be a right pain to chop out of?
4) Any ball that is unlikely to allow a nice clean sweep toward the green? (i.e all of the above & others)

Only I have been in long rough before with 2-3 or sometimes 4 shots to just get it back to the fairway 10 ft away. If I am missing a chance of "relief" or moving the ball under a 1 shot penalty then I can see my scorecard looking a bit nicer.

As I say, apologies for a noob question, but reading another thread got me thinking I may be doing myself out of a reasonable score.

Also, googled this & found rule 28? That with a 1 stroke penalty I can either:

• play a ball from where your last shot was played, or
• drop a ball any distance behind the point where the ball lay keeping a straight line between the hole, the point where the ball lay and the spot on which the ball is dropped, or
• drop a ball within two club-lengths of where the ball lies not nearer the hole.

Have I read this right?

So drive to rough, find ball in long grass, pick up & drop back 10ft to fairway, iron to green, 2 putt would result in a 5?

It is entirely up to the player. You can be slap bang in the middle of the fairway on a perfect lie and decide you don't fancy the shot so can choose to take stroke and distance (your first bullet point option). If you wish to call that unplayable that's entirely up to you - it doesn't make any difference. Take S&D any time you so choose - no conditions.

So yes - when in deep deep doggie - often the most sensible thing to do is to take S&D - whether you can play the ball or not - whether it is difficult to play or not - it makes no difference.

 

[drew83]

Ah, ok cool. Cheers Hogan.

And in my example, am I right in counting it as 5? 4 strokes + the penalty?

Last one, i'm guessing that you have to make all parties aware that I am doing so?

 

[pbrown7582]

yes the 4 strokes plus penalty is a 5 and good course management rather than 3 hackers in the rough and a resultant 7 or worse!##


make your marker aware what you are doing.

an unplayable lie can be anywhere, you could claim unplayable on the green if you so wished.

 

[drew83]

Ok cheers. How many shots have I lost not knowing this......?

 

[pbrown7582]

Ok cheers. How many shots have I lost not knowing this......?

something we are all guilty of I would suspect where valour takes over rather than common sense and take your punishment.

 

[drew83]

something we are all guilty of I would suspect where valour takes over rather than common sense and take your punishment.

Yep.... the old "I can get out of this 1st time".....

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

@drew83 - saw classic of your situation last club Pro-AM. On 1st tee - in front of a crowd and local PGA people etc - amateur tees off and sclaffs it 20yds left into 18" deep wispy stuff with really thick grass on ground - he was two club lengths from first cut. He took three hacks to get it out and into the first cut. Proceeds to hit it straight back into deep stuff. Another two goes to get it out. But being only 75yds from tee on a 500+yd par 5 and having played 7 he picked up. We all felt for him

If he had taken S&D from the off he would probably have been 200yds+ up the fairway in 3.

 

[Region3]

So drive to rough, find ball in long grass, pick up & drop back 10ft to fairway, iron to green, 2 putt would result in a 5?

As others have said, you are the sole arbiter of what you consider an unplayable lie. The ball doesn't have to be unplayable by anyone's standards.

The thing that no-one that I can see has mentioned, is that your scenario only works if you have a club that is 5' long, as 2 club lengths is your limit to drop within.

 

[drew83]

@drew83 - saw classic of your situation last club Pro-AM. On 1st tee - in front of a crowd and local PGA people etc - amateur tees off and sclaffs it 20yds left into 18" deep wispy stuff with really thick grass on ground - he was two club lengths from first cut. He took three hacks to get it out and into the first cut. Proceeds to hit it straight back into deep stuff. Another two goes to get it out. But being only 75yds from tee on a 500+yd par 5 and having played 7 he picked up. We all felt for him

If he had taken S&D from the off he would probably have been 200yds+ up the fairway in 3.

Ouch! That sounds like my last round. Lovely drive (so I thought), got over the hill towards where the ball should have been...PP says he thought he saw it moving left, wandered to the long stuff, sure enough there it is. 100 yds from pin, 3 hacks get's it on fairway, pw to green, 2 putt. Walked off with 7.

Had I known I could have walked away with a 5 instead.....

I won't be making that mistake again!

Especially with tomorrow's society where the rough is ROUGH!

 

[drew83]

As others have said, you are the sole arbiter of what you consider an unplayable lie. The ball doesn't have to be unplayable by anyone's standards.

The thing that no-one that I can see has mentioned, is that your scenario only works if you have a club that is 5' long, as 2 club lengths is your limit to drop within.

Region3, on the R&A site I read;

"drop a ball any distance behind the point where the ball lay keeping a straight line between the hole, the point where the ball lay and the spot on which the ball is dropped, or"

As in my OP. From that I take it I could go 20ft back toward the tee if I choose? Am I wrong in this?

Of course, if the fairway is within 2 lengths to the left or right, I would take that as an option.

There is one hole where it dog legs left. I end up in the cabbage & can't got to the left as it is nearer the green. Therefore I go back toward the tee 10 / 15 / 20 ft. As in the attached.

The black line is ideal approach. The green in my drive. The yellow would be my option for the drop.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Ouch! That sounds like my last round. Lovely drive (so I thought), got over the hill towards where the ball should have been...PP says he thought he saw it moving left, wandered to the long stuff, sure enough there it is. 100 yds from pin, 3 hacks get's it on fairway, pw to green, 2 putt. Walked off with 7.

Had I known I could have walked away with a 5 instead.....

I won't be making that mistake again!

Especially with tomorrow's society where the rough is ROUGH!

Though in truth in your scenario your ball would have had to be in a pretty horrendous lie for you to decide to take S&D and walk back to the tee to play three.

If you were not too far into the rough of course - then taking one or two penalty drops to get yourself out of the deep stuff might have been an option.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

Region3, on the R&A site I read;

"drop a ball any distance behind the point where the ball lay keeping a straight line between the hole, the point where the ball lay and the spot on which the ball is dropped, or"

As in my OP. From that I take it I could go 20ft back toward the tee if I choose? Am I wrong in this?

Of course, if the fairway is within 2 lengths to the left or right, I would take that as an option.

There is one hole where it dog legs left. I end up in the cabbage & can't got to the left as it is nearer the green. Therefore I go back toward the tee 10 / 15 / 20 ft. As in the attached.

The black line is ideal approach. The green in my drive. The red would be my option for the drop.

View attachment 15789

You follow the rule precisely. It does not mention the tee. Your line back from where your ball is lying and in line with the flag is just that - it has nothing to do with heading back towards the tee - though if course in some holes and scenarios it might. And you can go back in line as far as you want.

 

[drew83]

Hogan, had some issues with the picture....

Did you see the version with the black green & yellow lines added?

As I say, on that hole, I could not drop to the left as it is nearer the hole, so my only option is going toward the tee. Maybe mentioning the tee confused issues.

But am I right that in that instance, on that hole, I would take the "yellow" route?

 

[drew83]

Added again to make sure

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

View attachment 15791Added again to make sure

Hole is complete Right Angle dogleg left. And your ball looks right in the outside of the dog leg and close to course boundary and OoB? Yellow line suggests your drops back towards the tee would be closer to the hole - unless you took many drops. And no line from flag through your ball as that would take you OoB or if you can drop no better off? So you take S&D and go right back to the tee playing 3

 

[drew83]

Hole is complete Right Angle dogleg left. And your ball looks right in the outside of the dog leg and close to course boundary and OoB? Yellow line suggests your drops back towards the tee would be closer to the hole - unless you took many drops. And no line from flag through your ball as that would take you OoB or if you can drop no better off? So you take S&D and go right back to the tee playing 3

Ok Hogan cheers for clarification!

 

[Region3]

I'm not sure what is what looking at that picture, but trying to simplify it....

The "go back as far as you like" option says that you MUST keep the point where your ball was between you and the flag when you drop.
If it's not possible to do that because of boundaries or you're moving to a worse spot then unlucky, you have to choose one of the other options.

 

[SwingsitlikeHogan]

I'm not sure what is what looking at that picture, but trying to simplify it....

The "go back as far as you like" option says that you MUST keep the point where your ball was between you and the flag when you drop.
If it's not possible to do that because of boundaries or you're moving to a worse spot then unlucky, you have to choose one of the other options.

That's what it looks like - and drops to take relief look likely to take OP closer to the hole (only marginally - but it counts). Back to the tee - playing three.

Or if the boundary is a wall - whack your ball away from the green and against the wall and dodge the rebounding ball as it heads it's merry way toward the hole

 

[drew83]

Ah, ok that's the bit I missed.

behind the point where the ball lay keeping a straight line between the hole, the point where the ball lay and the spot on which the ball is dropped

Thanks Region.