VAR

[Orikoru]

Therein lies the problem. No one is entitled to do anything, you fall or are knocked down when you physically can’t stop the fall, not when you “think you’re entitled “ to a penalty.

It's the modern game. The pace of the game is double that what it was 20 or 30 years ago. If you're running at full pelt then someone grabs hold of your shirt for example, that can slow you down enough that a goalscoring chance disappears, and potentially the ref doesn't see that. Chance is gone and you get nothing for it. So managers will obviously instruct their attackers to make it clearer that contact has been made by going down.

 

[Khamelion]

It was a clear penalty and not a dive

The fault in the system was clear last night - Mike Jones the worst referee in premiership history was watching it , Willian was clearly caught and went down because of that touch

Well it was far from a clear penalty because the wrong decision was made.

Watch it again, you can clearly see that as he tries to hurdle the defender's leg, his left foot catches the Norwich defender's leg which sends him over. Awful tackle from the lad anyway since he lunges across and doesn't get the ball. It's a clear penalty that one.

Willian got his just reward, he dived plain and simple, he could've stepped over the defender, but he anticipated the tackle and left his left leg behind so it hit the defender. He was trying to buy a penalty, he even jumps a little prior to the tackle which is why he has both feet off the ground. The ref and he VAR people got it spot on.

 

[ColchesterFC]

A foul is a foul - you can't put your hand on someone's shoulder in that way. He's obviously doing that to drag him back. I'm not saying it was a penalty because the ref could have had the view that it wasn't done with enough force to drag him down. But I think it's harsh to book him for diving when he's being fouled at the time. Perhaps the right decision would have just been to give the goal kick, with no booking.

If he's being dragged back or down why does he go down full length forwards with his legs out behind him. In my book that makes it a dive.

 

[ColchesterFC]

So managers will obviously instruct their attackers to make it clearer that contact has been made by DIVING.

Fixed that for you. :thup:

 

[Orikoru]

Willian got his just reward, he dived plain and simple, he could've stepped over the defender, but he anticipated the tackle and left his left leg behind so it hit the defender. He was trying to buy a penalty, he even jumps a little prior to the tackle which is why he has both feet off the ground. The ref and he VAR people got it spot on.

I have no idea how you can watch it and come to that conclusion without a huge amount of bias. He's jumped to try and hurdle the Norwich player's leg, which he has lunged aimlessly across the front of him. As he does this his left foot catches said leg which sends him down. It's a bloody stonewall penalty and if you can't see that you must be blind.

 

[Beezerk]

Therein lies the problem. No one is entitled to do anything, you fall or are knocked down when you physically can’t stop the fall, not when you “think you’re entitled “ to a penalty.

Exactly, it's a disease in the game which goes off at all levels unfortunately.

 

[Khamelion]

I don't consider it a dive if you are being fouled at the time. I believe you're entitled to go down if you're being fouled. A dive is when there's zero contact and you try and make it look as if there was.

If someone during a game puts a hand on your shoulder and you go down like you've been shot, then you are a cheater, you are trying to con the ref. Sadly it has become part of the game which hopefully VAR will start to rule out as players will start to realise they can't get away with it anymore.

Some of the so called stars of the game who like to dive should take a look a George Best dribbling the ball when he was at his playing prime, the opposition often tried to kick lumps out of him but he kept going.

[video=youtube;uJWWA-h_-5g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJWWA-h_-5g[/video]

 

[Bunkermagnet]

It's the modern game. The pace of the game is double that what it was 20 or 30 years ago. If you're running at full pelt then someone grabs hold of your shirt for example, that can slow you down enough that a goalscoring chance disappears, and potentially the ref doesn't see that. Chance is gone and you get nothing for it. So managers will obviously instruct their attackers to make it clearer that contact has been made by going down.

You really think that someone touching you on the shoulder is going to mean your legs fly out behind you?
Either you want players to cheat, or you don’t. What you can’t do is excuse some things.

 

[Khamelion]

I have no idea how you can watch it and come to that conclusion without a huge amount of bias. He's jumped to try and hurdle the Norwich player's leg, which he has lunged aimlessly across the front of him. As he does this his left foot catches said leg which sends him down. It's a bloody stonewall penalty and if you can't see that you must be blind.

Not blind at all, even watching at full speed before the replays last night, I called a dive. As I wrote, Willian ANTICPATED the tackle and played for the penalty, he dived simple. IF you cannot see that he purposely left his left leg behind so that it would catch the defender, then you sir are blind.

 

[Crazyface]

IF he made contact, then it was in the act of jumping over the outstretched leg. The defender did not make contact with his lunge. No penalty.

 

[Khamelion]

You really think that someone touching you on the shoulder is going to mean your legs fly out behind you?
Either you want players to cheat, or you don’t. What you can’t do is excuse some things.

The stupid things is, players will drop at the slightest touch, but if they just tried a little harder to play the game like men and stop acting like little girls, then they might actually get into a position to cross the ball for a team mate to score, they might actually get in a position for themselves to score.

There are not many players who will try to stay on their feet rather than dive, hats off to those who play without the need to cheat.

 

[Orikoru]

I think it's just a generational thing. The game has moved on and defenders kicking lumps out of attackers isn't acceptable anymore. You're quick to brand someone going down under contact a cheat, but a defender grabbing a handful of a striker's shirt and getting away with it is also cheating by the same measure. Appealing for a goal kick when you know full well you got the last touch and it should be corner is also cheating.

Diving is cheating and should be punished accordingly, but I just don't consider it diving if you are actually fouled at the time. If you get held back by your arm, stay on your feet but the ball runs out of play because you can't get there, and nothing is given, where is the merit in that? The defender has cheated and got away with it in that scenario. I don't see how that is better than the attacking player showing that he's being held back and getting the penalty or free kick that he is entitled to for the foul.

 

[Reemul]

I don't consider it a dive if you are being fouled at the time. I believe you're entitled to go down if you're being fouled. A dive is when there's zero contact and you try and make it look as if there was.

This is rubbish, absolute rubbish. The only reason he went down was because he was in the box, if everyone fell down every time there was any sort of contact they would be flopping all over the midfield.

A touch is a touch not a foul. Contact does not mean a foul and certainly does not mean diving like a Olympic gold medallist.

You see if a touch like that is a foul why is it not given all the time, all around the pitch, that's right it's not because it's not a foul it's just contact and football is still a contact sport isn't it.

 

[Orikoru]

Not blind at all, even watching at full speed before the replays last night, I called a dive. As I wrote, Willian ANTICPATED the tackle and played for the penalty, he dived simple. IF you cannot see that he purposely left his left leg behind so that it would catch the defender, then you sir are blind.

If you're not blind, you're just mental. I've watched it about ten times now this morning and every time I see Willian beat the defender, the defender puts in a shocking tackle that misses the ball by a country mile and Willian trips over it. It's a stonewall 100% bona fide penalty. It's great play by Willian, not manufacturing a penalty, but simply being too good for the defender that all he can do is lunge wildly and foul him.

 

[Orikoru]

This is rubbish, absolute rubbish. The only reason he went down was because he was in the box, if everyone fell down every time there was any sort of contact they would be flopping all over the midfield.

A touch is a touch not a foul. Contact does not mean a foul and certainly does not mean diving like a Olympic gold medallist.

You see if a touch like that is a foul why is it not given all the time, all around the pitch, that's right it's not because it's not a foul it's just contact and football is still a contact sport isn't it.

Some contact is allowed some isn't. You are allowed to put your shoulder on a player's shoulder for example. But contact with your hand on someone's shoulder or arm to slow them down is a foul. As I've said, it was probably too soft for a penalty but to book him is harsh also because he is being fouled. To book someone for diving I think it has to be clear cut - like Pedro's one in the same game. THAT is what I call a dive and 100% a booking.

 

[Khamelion]

Football is full of ambiguities, stand in front of someone in the midfield stopping them getting to the ball and it's obstruction and a foul, yet a defender does this when close to the byline and he's shepherding he ball out of play, why is that not obstruction?

And as written above players are grabbing shirts, clawing at each other all over the pitch trying to get the ball, get past the opposition and they stay upright and fight like hell, yet as soon as they get close to the box or in it they look for the foul, it's quite pathetic.

 

[Orikoru]

Football is full of ambiguities, stand in front of someone in the midfield stopping them getting to the ball and it's obstruction and a foul, yet a defender does this when close to the byline and he's shepherding he ball out of play, why is that not obstruction?

And as written above players are grabbing shirts, clawing at each other all over the pitch trying to get the ball, get past the opposition and they stay upright and fight like hell, yet as soon as they get close to the box or in it they look for the foul, it's quite pathetic.

Agree 100% on the first one - I actually said that to someone in the office earlier! Obstruction is always gotten away with when the ball's going out, it's mad.

Often players are looking for it in the box, you're not wrong. But the flipside (or devil's advocate if you like) is that having your shirt tugged on the halfway line doesn't prevent a clear goalscoring chance, whereas in the box it often does.

 

[Bunkermagnet]

I think it's just a generational thing. The game has moved on and defenders kicking lumps out of attackers isn't acceptable anymore. You're quick to brand someone going down under contact a cheat, but a defender grabbing a handful of a striker's shirt and getting away with it is also cheating by the same measure. Appealing for a goal kick when you know full well you got the last touch and it should be corner is also cheating.

Diving is cheating and should be punished accordingly, but I just don't consider it diving if you are actually fouled at the time. If you get held back by your arm, stay on your feet but the ball runs out of play because you can't get there, and nothing is given, where is the merit in that? The defender has cheated and got away with it in that scenario. I don't see how that is better than the attacking player showing that he's being held back and getting the penalty or free kick that he is entitled to for the foul.

Either you’re cheating or you’re not. You can’t excuse one player cheating because someone else was.
To apply it to our game, you go to tap in a putt that’s 2 inches and miss it, that’s ok to not count that shot?
Either you accept ALL cheating or none at all, and it has nothing to do with age or generations.... it’s integrity and honesty and nothing to do with how old you are.

 

[MegaSteve]

Never been in favour and nothing I've seen so far is having me change my mind...

Doesn't work in rugby [either code] and you'll find plenty of others saying the same... Not just me...

OK for cricket as it's not a fast moving game with time for reviews etc between each ball if necessary...

As for being good for footie... No Way!

VAR ain't arriving at the marshes anytime soon...


It's good for Sky/BT and that's it as far as I am concerned..

 

[IanM]

"Sport" is full of ambiguities..... it's just managed better in other sports.

The major change in football in the past 35 years is that back then, players would get up to show the opposition that they were not hard enough to hurt them. Now, we see players rolling around on the floor if their "Alice band" is displaced!