USGA Greens

[MoonPig]

My course has these greens and make claims about how well they play in the winter months due to them being able to absorb and drain water efficiently. This is my first season at the club so can not comment on these claims but for those of you who have played on these type of greens what do you think?

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm not expert but I understand they are laid on top of layers of stone and sand which allows the water to drain through much quicker than traditionally laid greens. That said, I'm pretty sure they are just as susceptible to the water tables flooding so if we get deluges like a couple of years ago there is simply nowhere for the water to go.

 

[MoonPig]

Your right with the design Homer, see link

http://www.burstwickcountrygolf.co.uk/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.fdxdqbbqpbsnnnhl&pageId=359902

 

[JustOne]

They are without doubt the best greens to play on provided they don't get too dry in the Summer and there's adequate drainage for Winter.... so it's up to your green keeping staff to look after them as they should any greens.

 

[Doh]

We have these greens at my club we play on them all year round, never have temps.

Our greenkeeper does a great job with them best in the area.

 

[USER1999]

Most of the courses I have played on with these greens have not been good. I get the impression you need to throw serious money at the maintainance of them to get them any good. Stockley park, Northwood, Royal Ascot (sorry H, but they will take another 20 years minimum), Harewood downs to name but a few.

The Grove on the other hand, and also the Brabazon, have lovely USGA greens. I can only assume the small army of greens staff, and the lower levels of play do the trick. That and the £100+ green fees.

In general they do drain well though.

 

[Smiffy]

A friend of mine was passing Chart Hills a few years ago...the Nick Faldo designed course in Kent.
We had experienced terrible weather that winter, he said the course was more or less completely flooded but all the greens were visible and looked superb.

 

[DMC]

With the amount of rain we get,it doesnt matter what spec the greens are.

 

[intherough]

I play on these green and they are superb. I've been stood under trees while the heavens open and a river starts across the green. Within 10 minutes of the rain stopping the green was playable. Unbelievable, however, i also think you need a good green keeper to look after them

 

[Region3]

I have no idea what USGA greens are, but our course plays from proper greens all year round and I've been told it's due to the way they were constructed, so it may be the same thing.

Apparently some members moved away from the club because of the greens, saying they couldn't get a ball to stop on them due to the way they were built, but I've not had a problem with them so far.

 

[USER1999]

Most USGA greens I have played on it is impossible to get the ball moving on them. Stopping the ball isn't the issue. Rolling it is. Slow is not the word.

These are american style greens, which require high maintainance, and are designed for Florida, with a 12 month growing season, and a high water table (built up out of a swamp). USGA greens work in FL, not here.

 

[toonarmy]

There is a course near me that seems to bang on about its 'USGA' greens as if it is important. The funny thing is, they are some of the poorest greens I've played on.

A good greenkeeper and know-how will top any label.

 

[DMC]

Most USGA greens I have played on it is impossible to get the ball moving on them. Stopping the ball isn't the issue. Rolling it is. Slow is not the word.

These are american style greens, which require high maintainance, and are designed for Florida, with a 12 month growing season, and a high water table (built up out of a swamp). USGA greens work in FL, not here.

Not far from here this has just opened golf


USPGA spec greens.like putting on tar.

 

[vig]

Our greens are USGA spec and play well all year.
When the course has been shut (very few times) it has been because of flooded fairways

 

[RGDave]

I couldn't possibly recommend USGA greens as any sort of bonus. In fact, any club boasting this is likely to get erased from my little black book of possible visits.
It winds me up SO, SO badly. Utter tosh and spin.
I mean, come on, So what??? There is a lot of good science behind the "specification" (OF COURSE) but in reality it makes no difference, in some cases, they are actually less good.
Best greens around here are old and established courses with good greenstaff and a chief "green-genius" drinking tea in the groundsman's hut.
I've played some shocking courses with USGA standard greens.....

I'm off to kick a few cats.

 

[Doh]

Agree that any type of green can be made good/bad it,s all down to the people who do or dont look after them.

 

[greensman]

Your right, old push up greens can be every bit as good as USGA greens, if not better.
However USGA greens do have some advantages, the main being drainage. Many think they require loads of water and are expensive to maintain, this is not correct! They work on a ‘suspended water table’ basically they will hold onto water (lower down the soil profile) whilst keeping the surface dry. So any excess water, heavy rain or irrigation will simply drain away. The idea is to keep the top 4inch dry and firm.

I have worked on both USGA greens and 100-year-old clay greens. In my opinion as long as they are maintained well, with REGULAR aeration, top-dressing, wetting agent, little feed, little water and cut to a sensible height then you won’t go far wrong.

The problem is not always the greenkeeper. It often starts when those golfers (amateur gardeners) start telling the experts what to do. Many don’t have a clue or realise the complexity of maintaining fine turf & greenkeeping. This is when over enthusiastic members and committee members who are full of gusto and change, fail. They fail because they listen to those members who talk at the bar and fail to listen to the experts.

I have seen an influx in USGA greens over the last 10 years, and I have seen this on many old golf courses… WHY? Greens don’t have a sell by date! The problem will always be the interfering golfer who pressurises the greenkeeper in to doing things wrong.

 

[Wildrover]

With what Greensman has posted in mind, be aware that we are approaching the time when most courses will carry out aeration of the greens (hollow coring etc). Please don't get on the greenkeepers back as they know that the greens are good at the moment but to get them that way again next summer aeration has to be done now, as well as next spring in most cases.

 

[JustOne]

The problem will always be the interfering golfer who pressurises the greenkeeper in to doing things wrong.

My mate was a head green keeper and he was 'ordered' by the club committee not to hollow tine the greens as they looked so good

He left the following year.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Our greens were hollow tined this week and had a spray of chemicals on. A little early bearing in mind we have a gold letter event over the bank holiday, the Masters (invites only for competition winners over the last 12 months - I'm in again) and our members/guest day. In particular the timing seems odd as it is a day that could attract potential new members and I have a concern the greens will be pretty poor (especially visually) and may still be settling back down which won't enhance the repautation of the course or club.

Its a pity they have done it as they have putted outstandingly all summer and were much better than in previous years. Not overly quick but they held their line well. I totally understand the need fo rthe work and wholeheartedly support the work the staff have put in all year. I assume they have acted in consultation with the committee who are aware of the fixtures and as say just find the timing, not the need, surprising.

The greens on our old course in the racecourse were 70-100 years old and so were well established but in the 7 or so years I played there they still changed a bit year on yea as they moved because of water tables etc wet/dry summers. Our new course is only 4 years old and so I expect the greens to be moving still and its still fun learning all the nuances.