Use of 'Virtual Players' in Team Competitions

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2blue

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Am interested to know if Clubs use these for 3 & 4-player teams that find themselves a player short for whatever reason.
Our Club has always allowed a Virtual who plays to Par ie. 2pts per hole....... is this too generous, or a fair compromise?
Would like to hear if your Club have a better solution?
Also if your Club operates a 2's Pot in these Team games.
 

GB72

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At my old club it was full team or nothing. Pro used to move people out of bookings that did not have enough and put them in other teams or encourage people to do that. Once people realised they could not go out at a 3 in a 4 person team comp they soon got used to splitting up their groups on the booking system and finding gaps in other teams.

Guess the 2 points a hole would depend on the course and conditions. Guess in a better ball team it would take some pressure off the team to know one person has 2 points in the bag.

We had a 2s pot for pretty much every comp.
 

Lord Tyrion

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A guaranteed 2 points from a virtual player seems generous to me. I'd give 1 point, seems fair considering they are not hitting a ball. 2 points in the bag each hole gives the others pretty much a free go at the hole, pressure off.

Can't answer re the 2's pot, sorry.
 

Bdill93

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Play with what you've got at my club. Never seen a team of 3 win - been in plenty of 4's that have scrambled for a single point/ not scored at all on a hole too! Gifting 2pts a hole would encourage 3's at my place :ROFLMAO:

No 2's in team events - theres so many its just not worth it.
 

JamesR

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We just allow the 3 man team to use full handicap allowance, whilst the 4 man teams use whatever the current % should be.

2 points per hole for a virtual player seems very generous.

Yes, we have 2's for these competitions
 

Backache

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We just allow the 3 man team to use full handicap allowance, whilst the 4 man teams use whatever the current % should be.

2 points per hole for a virtual player seems very generous.

Yes, we have 2's for these competitions
Ours are informal but we use 75% allowance for fours and 100% for threes.
 
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2blue

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At my old club it was full team or nothing. 1. Pro used to move people out of bookings that did not have enough and put them in other teams or encourage people to do that.
2. Once people realised they could not go out at a 3 in a 4 person team comp they soon got used to splitting up their groups on the booking system and finding gaps in other teams.

3. Guess the 2 points a hole would depend on the course and conditions. Guess in a better ball team it would take some pressure off the team to know one person has 2 points in the bag.

4. We had a 2s pot for pretty much every comp.
1. Yeah, the Comps Team used to do that, assemble balanced teams from a 'Sign-up' sheet on a Notice Board & fill gaps , so, I guess, felt a responsibility to fit everyone in the Comp.... hence just one or two teams a player short with a Virtual.
2. Having been 'Spoon-feed' through Team Formats for many years our players are, understandably, rather slow to adopt the new culture of ensuring you have your own team sorted..... will take a while especially if the Virtual player has a generous ability.
3. I get you with this & for our place would say 2pts a hole but just 1pt for the 4 most difficult GIR. We have 2 in each 9 that only single fig golfers can make with any regularity.
4. Yes, I'd agree as we have 2's included in the Comp fee...... but of course not for Texas scrambles.

Play with what you've got at my club. Never seen a team of 3 win - been in plenty of 4's that have scrambled for a single point/ not scored at all on a hole too! Gifting 2pts a hole would encourage 3's at my place :ROFLMAO:
Yeah, if allowed, I think I'd be one of these as we've several holes where I'd take 2pts before teeing off.
 

Liverpoolphil

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I’m guessing this is in social play as opposed to organised club comps ?

Social play can use either a hidden pro ( 2pts per hole ) or pick a score card etc

In any official comps - it’s tough , have the right amount of players - there is no way any official club comp could have a virtual player , that would make it a bit of a mockery
 
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2blue

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We use a 'ghost' player to make up the 4 ball

Draw a name of another player in the field and their score gets included in results for all 3 balls

If a 3 ball is in the prizes the ghost also collects as part of that team
Yes, I've seen that, & it's worked well, where it's an informal group & you can ensure that the 'ghost' keeps a complete scorecard. However these are Club Comps so not completely certain that would happen even if that person turned up to play. Or maybe I'm just anticipating problems etc. :oops:
 
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2blue

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I’m guessing this is in social play as opposed to organised club comps ?

Social play can use either a hidden pro ( 2pts per hole ) or pick a score card etc

In any official comps - it’s tough , have the right amount of players - there is no way any official club comp could have a virtual player , that would make it a bit of a mockery
In the winter organised club comps don't have to be 'super serious' as long as they're scored fair & equitably..... which is what we are looking for. They're not Board Comps after all, just trying to involve all members even if they can't find their 3 or 4th player or there is a 'No show' on the first tee. It's OK if all the 3 team or 4 team members know each other so will be certain to turn up but when you're trying to involve new members it not so easy...... or so we're finding.
 
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2blue

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We just allow the 3 man team to use full handicap allowance, whilst the 4 man teams use whatever the current % should be.

2 points per hole for a virtual player seems very generous.

Yes, we have 2's for these competitions
With the example I'm working with 100% would move them from 4th place with 79pts to 89pts & winners by 3pts clear.
At 2pts a hole they share the lead on 86pts, losing out on countback.
 

pauldj42

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We don’t use a virtual player, full team only.

2’s we reduce to count on only 1 of our Par 3’s, for team comps and in Texas Scrambles we go further and only award a sleeve of balls for a 2 on said hole.
 

Liverpoolphil

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In the winter organised club comps don't have to be 'super serious' as long as they're scored fair & equitably..... which is what we are looking for. They're not Board Comps after all, just trying to involve all members even if they can't find their 3 or 4th player or there is a 'No show' on the first tee. It's OK if all the 3 team or 4 team members know each other so will be certain to turn up but when you're trying to involve new members it not so easy...... or so we're finding.
By using a virtual player it can’t be fair or equitable , same with average or picking a score card etc. Score manipulation using those methods will have holes in.
 

GB72

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The nearest to a fair way that I can think of to work it would be to extract the hole average data from How Did I Do and apply that score for the ghost player but that means waiting untill all scores are in and also makes the assumption that the scores are all digitally recorded (I am sure it used to struggle wiht team comps).

Whatever system applied, it is a nighmare to score those cards unless you apply an arbitrary score like 2 points per hole.
 
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2blue

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We don’t use a virtual player, full team only.

2’s we reduce to count on only 1 of our Par 3’s, for team comps and in Texas Scrambles we go further and only award a sleeve of balls for a 2 on said hole.
Yes I think we'll get there eventually but we're currently moving gradually from a culture of 'involve everyone however possible' (see earlier post) to one where players have to take greater responsibility if they wish to be involved....
Like that 2's idea. 👍👍
 

3offTheTee

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Think Rulefan hd an idea a while back. Think if there 3 from 4 to score the Group with 3 had the 2nd best score on each hole would double his score e.g 4/3, 4/2 and 4/1 would be 7 points 4/3 and 4/2 x2.

Hope that makes sense
 
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I'm surprised so many think 2pts is generous, I would have assumed for most holes 2 out of the 4 players would normally get a nett par. I would have expected it to impact on perhaps 3-4 holes so 8 points at most assuming that if you had a fourth player then they would have blobbed all four holes which seems unlikely. At best i reckon it's worth 2-3pts potentially and the loss of birdie chances on all holes.
 

rulefan

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Think Rulefan hd an idea a while back. Think if there 3 from 4 to score the Group with 3 had the 2nd best score on each hole would double his score e.g 4/3, 4/2 and 4/1 would be 7 points 4/3 and 4/2 x2.
Yes, we settled on that format some years ago after trying all sorts of options. This was soon accepted as producing the fairest outcome (at least everyone believes that it is and are happy with it).
The only 'stats' we have show that the disparity between the biggest winner and the lowest loser in the prize money pot at the end of a year is very much closer that any other system tried. Handicaps are adjusted monthly depending on winning or losses.
 
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