USA Handicapping - Handicap Sec Point of View?

[Swango1980]

Good morning. I was interested in getting an insight into handicapping from a US (or similar) administration perspective, as we in the UK prepare to move over to WHS.

Traditionally, as far as I believe, golfers in the US are expected to enter all their scores, pretty much regardless of type of competition, or whether it is a competition or social golf. So, if you have a course that was often pretty busy all week, and golfers teed off from 7am to 5pm, with say 15 players an hour, that would be 1,050 scores per week. Now, if we take out, say 200 scores, because they were in competitions and the competition secretary checked those scores, then that leaves 850 other scores. Now, that is a heck of a lot, but even if that is over the top in terms of scores entered, I suspect you are still looking at hundreds of scores entered each week, rather than a handful?

So, I'm wondering how these scores are checked? As far as I am aware, under WHS these scores SHOULD have an associated scorecard submitted. However, as a handicap secretary in the US, how do you deal with this? Let us say you come up to the club once a week to keep on top of things, you switch on the computer system, and see that during the last week up to 850 scores have been entered (or maybe even just a few hundred), presumably you then need to go and do the following:

• Go and find the associated scorecards
• Check through each scorecard to see if scores in system tie up
• Make any corrections, maybe contact the player if it changes their handicap calculation
• Contact players if cards not signed
• Contact players if it appears they never pre-registered their round (does this make their score invalid?)
• Inevitably, scorecards will be missing. Contact players who this applies to.
• Wait for players to submit those missing scorecards.
• Decide what to do if the player has lost that scorecard (do you delete the score, keep it, or have to make a subjective decision as to whether you think the score is acceptable?)

In the UK, players can submit scores from social golf as supplementary cards at the moment, but in my experience it is very rare, and only a handful of players do this weekly to keep their handicap maintained if they can't play in comps. At my club for example, over summer I probably get less than 10 a week. That may take me 15-20 minutes to deal with once a week, and because I enter the scores I don't need to worry about incorrect score entry or missing scorecards. However, even if the player entered their score using PSI screen, their handicap will not be updated until I verify the score. So, compared to what we do in UK, I suspect the admin of handicaps in the US (even before WHS) was a much bigger task, if the above tasks were required?

My latest concern, is that when the UK moves over to WHS, handicap secretaries are going to start seeing a sharp rise in scores entered from social golf. Maybe dozens of rounds a week to begin with, but may rise sharply, especially if players can start entering scores using Apps. Crucially, currently in the UK, a player's handicap will never change until their score is either verified by the handicap sec (social golf), a competition is closed by committee, or under review by the handicap sec. In other words, player's handicaps will not change unless an action is taken by club committee. However, with WHS, once a player enters their own score, their handicap WILL change for the next day (unless there are any WHS systems in place to stop this, but not heard of any). No checks will have been done before this happens. So, they could enter a score, say on a Saturday, get a handicap increase for Sunday, win or get a prize in a competition on the Sunday, and then later in week, when their Saturday score is checked, the handicap secretary may notice that no card was submitted, or not signed, of not pre-registered, or entered incorrectly. Worse still, a player could theoretically sit at home all week and enter multiple scores on an app to get a significant handicap increase for an upcoming weekend competition, and it is up to the handicap secretary to spot this. It is an extreme case, I know, but if it were to happen you are asking the handicap sec / committee to become investigators, and try and prove a player is being devious. Could be hard to do if they say otherwise, especially if there is a record that they did actually play during the week.

Seems to be an administrative headache? As such, I'm thinking that scorecards will become unnecessary for social golf, and only required for competitions. Basically, we will be required to put a lot of trust in golfers honesty AND their ability not to make a mistake when entering scores.

I would be interested if the US have a streamlined way administrating handicaps, without having to fully resorting to having to just trust all those scores?

 

[rulefan]

I'm not in or from the US but I think you will find that virtually all players enter their own scores. Formal competitions are much less common than in the UK so non comp rounds dominate. Further, players are not required to enter hole by hole scores and many simply enter their 'adjusted' gross total (ie allowing not putting out or adjusted for exceeding the maximum score for a hole).
All of which, I suspect, will horrify you.
But as this is predominately a UK based site you may find more detailed responses on a US site.
This is one has some very knowledgeable posters but beware, some postings can be very aggressive.
www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/50-rules-of-golf-and-etiquette/
or
www.4gea.freeforums.net/board/7/rules-game

 

[jim8flog]

We put a lot of trust in players integrity anyhow.

Only they know many a time whether they caused a ball to move, have they moved it intentionally, at this time of the year is it really within 6 inches etc etc

There will always be played that do not abide by the rules simply because they do not know them, think they do not apply to them or the more obvious reason.

 

[Swango1980]

We put a lot of trust in players integrity anyhow.

Only they know many a time whether they caused a ball to move, have they moved it intentionally, at this time of the year is it really within 6 inches etc etc

There will always be played that do not abide by the rules simply because they do not know them, think they do not apply to them or the more obvious reason.

True. But, even ignoring issues with players integrity, I'm more thinking how this will work from an administration point of view. In other words, as handicap secretary, I'm I going to have to spend hours each week sorting out scorecards from social golf, chasing players, answering questions about handicap increases from rounds that have not been verified, etc.

If England Golf simply say "just trust the integrity of these scores, and don't worry about scorecards", than at least I'd have the comfort that, if another player complains about another player, for example, at least I can clarify that we are following the correct protocols. It maybe just feels like, handicap secretaries are suddenly going to find themselves inundated with scores and changes to players handicaps, and they are going to spend a significant amount of time trying to keep on top of this.

 

[Swango1980]

I'm not in or from the US but I think you will find that virtually all players enter their own scores. Formal competitions are much less common than in the UK so non comp rounds dominate. Further, players are not required to enter hole by hole scores and many simply enter their 'adjusted' gross total (ie allowing not putting out or adjusted for exceeding the maximum score for a hole).
All of which, I suspect, will horrify you.
But as this is predominately a UK based site you may find more detailed responses on a US site.
This is one has some very knowledgeable posters but beware, some postings can be very aggressive.
www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/50-rules-of-golf-and-etiquette/
or
www.4gea.freeforums.net/board/7/rules-game

cheers rulefan, I'll ask the question and see what happens. I'll be prepared for some aggression, so I'll not stir the pot.

 

[jim8flog]

. It maybe just feels like, handicap secretaries are suddenly going to find themselves inundated with scores and changes to players handicaps, and they are going to spend a significant amount of time trying to keep on top of this.

It is one the major concerns and the lady who inputs all the scores and I have, hence our discussions about allowing SSs to be input by the phone app. Following our discussion she has already pointed out a couple of players whose number of SS cards is a bit suss.

 

[patricks148]

cheers rulefan, I'll ask the question and see what happens. I'll be prepared for some aggression, so I'll not stir the pot.

be sure to make sure you ask how their handicaps are so much lower than ours?? and is it bacause theirs are from bounce games and ours from comps

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

I maintain a handicap and play ZERO comps.
A computer program does all of the work beyond simple inputting which can be done on the fly.
I don't understand the problem.

 

[Swango1980]

I maintain a handicap and play ZERO comps.
A computer program does all of the work beyond simple inputting which can be done on the fly.
I don't understand the problem.

Cheers. In UK, as far as I am aware under WHS, any social rounds submitted for handicapping will still require a scorecard, which will need to be checked by a handicap secretary. So, the problem is, the handicap secretary could have a lot of work on his or her hands chasing all these scorecards, checking them and addressing any issues. Especially if more and more golfers start entering social rounds, as we are being encouraged.

In the US, I don't believe this is an issue as scorecards are not required to be submitted. Scores are simply entered by players themselves and scorecard can be thrown in the bin. So, a handicap secretary doesn't have to worry about this, it is simply accepted that scores are being entered correctly and honestly.

 

[patricks148]

Cheers. In UK, as far as I am aware under WHS, any social rounds submitted for handicapping will still require a scorecard, which will need to be checked by a handicap secretary. So, the problem is, the handicap secretary could have a lot of work on his or her hands chasing all these scorecards, checking them and addressing any issues. Especially if more and more golfers start entering social rounds, as we are being encouraged.

In the US, I don't believe this is an issue as scorecards are not required to be submitted. Scores are simply entered by players themselves and scorecard can be thrown in the bin. So, a handicap secretary doesn't have to worry about this, it is simply accepted that scores are being entered correctly and honestly.

shirley not much will change won't most guys just carry on the same and just play comps and those cards will be for handicap?

 

[Ye Olde Boomer]

quote A "'In the US"
quote B "correctly and honestly."

Now that the laughter has subsided, I find that most players would rather have vanity handicaps than sandbag handicaps.
It doesn't really effect the betting because the vanity handicaps are pretty universal.
The hard core gambler will have a sandbag handicap, but usually, he has no other viable source of income anyway so we consider it charity.

 

[Swango1980]

shirley not much will change won't most guys just carry on the same and just play comps and those cards will be for handicap?

Who is Shirley?

To begin with, you may be right. However, even before WHS England Golf are encouraging golfers to put as many cards in as possible. This is to ensure that, when we transition across, as many up to date scores have been used in your new WHS handicap. They will go as far back as January 2018 to get your last 20 round scores.

However, once players can enter scores, especially if apps make it easier, I suspect more and more golfers will do so. Especially those that dont play in comps often, mainly as they can personally keep track of their handicap. In the even longer term, when more formats of play will be permitted for handicapping, that will probably result in more submissions.

Note, England Golf are also requesting even swindle / roll up rounds are entered from now. Well, in some clubs, 50 seniors might turn up for a swindle twice a week. If they follow this recommendation, then come the summer, that's already 100 extra scorecards to check

 

[patricks148]

Who is Shirley?

To begin with, you may be right. However, even before WHS England Golf are encouraging golfers to put as many cards in as possible. This is to ensure that, when we transition across, as many up to date scores have been used in your new WHS handicap. They will go as far back as January 2018 to get your last 20 round scores.

However, once players can enter scores, especially if apps make it easier, I suspect more and more golfers will do so. Especially those that dont play in comps often, mainly as they can personally keep track of their handicap. In the even longer term, when more formats of play will be permitted for handicapping, that will probably result in more submissions.

Note, England Golf are also requesting even swindle / roll up rounds are entered from now. Well, in some clubs, 50 seniors might turn up for a swindle twice a week. If they follow this recommendation, then come the summer, that's already 100 extra scorecards to check

i think our seniors run counting comps for there rounds twice a week off the yellows so some of those guys are putting a fair few cards compared to the medal comps. i could envisage some extra cards at places where weather plays a big part, if its a day with no wind i will be sticking a card in

perhaps less competative seniors may do as so, but i suppose it depends on what sort of golf they play... TBH all my social rounds tend to me MP and up here most of the guys i know at other clubs would be similar