US GA Handicapping system.

Should we in the UK move to a similar handicapping system as the USGA?

  • Total voters
    59
  • Poll closed .
Is the slope system not basically the same as our CSS??

I personally don't see a need to change the system, it's not perfect but no system is. Having played in medals here and in America ours is better IMO. I like the idea of being able to muck about during casual,games then get all serious with the pen and card on a Saturday. Different game.
We need to put the ball in the hole for our scores here aswell, when I played in America these guys recording scores for their handicaps were playing gimmes from 3 feet.
Iv also found that at the lower end of the handicap scale there tends to be a lot of USA golfers with handicaps that they really couldn't play to here. It's also evident in the top amateur tournaments where iv heard guys complaining about being balloted out on handicaps to guys from the US that can't score near what their handicaps suggest.
 
No-one will be surprised to read that I would like to see an end to CSS, but I'm not sure I would like a move to the USGA system in full.
 
Simbo said:
Is the slope system not basically the same as our CSS??
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No, course rating is like SSS, and slope is for comparison between courses with different ratings. So if you have a handicap from a course with a certain course rating, and you go to a much harder course, you get more shots, but fewer at a much easier course.
 
delc said:
It seems a pity that the USGA system does not compensate for poor weather or course conditions with a CSS. Sometimes 32 points or 4 over handicap can be a good score! As it stands USGA will favour fair weather golfers.
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CSS compensates for scores. It can't take into account weather or course conditions as the calculation relies on nothing but the numbers input into the system.
If, during bad weather, enough players play well, CSS will stay or even go down.
On a calm sunny day, if enough people play badly it may go up.
Of course, scoring is harder in bad weather but CSS doesn't listen to a weather forecast.

On the OP, I'm inclined to stick with what we have as it, mostly, works.
The only point of changing is if it improves the situation
I'm not convinced that changing would improve things sufficiently to warrant the upheaval
 
Imurg said:
CSS compensates for scores. It can't take into account weather or course conditions as the calculation relies on nothing but the numbers input into the system.
If, during bad weather, enough players play well, CSS will stay or even go down.
On a calm sunny day, if enough people play badly it may go up.
Of course, scoring is harder in bad weather but CSS doesn't listen to a weather forecast.

On the OP, I'm inclined to stick with what we have as it, mostly, works.
The only point of changing is if it improves the situation
I'm not convinced that changing would improve things sufficiently to warrant the upheaval
Click to expand...

Surely the principle of CSS is that on difficult days, fewer players will score well enough to get into the buffer zone and the CSS will go up. It is a simple numerical way of estimating the difficulty of the day. :)
 
delc said:
Surely the principle of CSS is that on difficult days, fewer players will score well enough to get into the buffer zone and the CSS will go up. It is a simple numerical way of estimating the difficulty of the day. :)
Click to expand...

It's a simple numerical way of estimating how well people have played. It's more than possible to play well on "difficult" days and play dreadfully on perfect days.
Yeah, the principle is to even things out so playing well on a perfect day might not get you as big a cut but CSS only knows the input numbers.
 
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I personally don't see a need to change the system, it's not perfect but no system is. Having played in medals here and in America ours is better IMO. I like the idea of being able to muck about during casual,games then get all serious with the pen and card on a Saturday. Different game.
We need to put the ball in the hole for our scores here aswell, when I played in America these guys recording scores for their handicaps were playing gimmes from 3 feet.
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing the merits of either system - but we also could do that under CONGU. Its called cheating.
 
Imurg said:
It's a simple numerical wa of estimating how well people have played. It's more than possible to play well on "difficult" days and play dreadfully on perfect days.
Yeah, the principle is to even things out so playing well on a perfect day might not get you as big a cut but CSS only knows the input numbers.
Click to expand...

The is quite correct. CSS is simply a statistical adjustment based on the distribution of scores. It takes no account of the reason the scores are as they are. But in a large field, the internal factors (the players) are likely to be fairly similar from event to event, so in practice it is likely to be external factors which influence the distribution of scores. That could be the greenskeeper having a bad day and putting every flag in an impossible position with lightning greens, but more often it will be weather conditions.
 
Ethan said:
The US system doesn't really take weather or playing conditions into account. The course rating is the course rating, like SSS. It doesn't vary and since most scores posted are casual rounds they don't have a set of other scores to use to calibrate the daily playing difficulty.

In the past, there was an allowance against handicap if you took a handicap from a course with one SSS to another course with a different SSS. That may have been GUI only, though.
Click to expand...

Not really understanding how the CCS system works I dont get why cousre ratings should be adjusted for weather conditions.

I think it could skew results as having played in Scotland for many years the weather in the morning can be completely different to that in the afternoon....so its just the luck of the draw. We have seen this at the Open for example. And so by inference would it be true to say that you don't know what the CSS is until after the event...so purely a mechanism for handicap adjustment? If so then this does become a little distorted due to weather.

I take the point entirely about bounce games....but then they were attempting to reduce handicaps so the only people they were deluding were themselves. Its the other way round that I would be concerned about.
 
seochris said:
Not really understanding how the CCS system works I dont get why cousre ratings should be adjusted for weather conditions.

I think it could skew results as having played in Scotland for many years the weather in the morning can be completely different to that in the afternoon....so its just the luck of the draw. We have seen this at the Open for example. And so by inference would it be true to say that you don't know what the CSS is until after the event...so purely a mechanism for handicap adjustment? If so then this does become a little distorted due to weather.

I take the point entirely about bounce games....but then they were attempting to reduce handicaps so the only people they were deluding were themselves. Its the other way round that I would be concerned about.
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Don't you know?. The weather in the US is either steady sunshine or (if you live in the north) 6 months of knee deep snow.

Anyway, they don't have so many comps so most scores are based on casual rounds and you can't derive CSS scores for those.
 
Imurg said:
It's a simple numerical way of estimating how well people have played. It's more than possible to play well on "difficult" days and play dreadfully on perfect days.
Yeah, the principle is to even things out so playing well on a perfect day might not get you as big a cut but CSS only knows the input numbers.
Click to expand...
Provided you get a significant number of players in a competition field, it is statistically unlikely that they will all play well, or all play badly at the same time. Therefore CSS is a reasonable estimate of the conditions on the day. Obviously it cannot be applied to individual rounds, but I would like to see it kept for competitions.
 
delc said:
Provided you get a significant number of players in a competition field, it is statistically unlikely that they will all play well, or all play badly at the same time. Therefore CSS is a reasonable estimate of the conditions on the day.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that, for CSS to move, only "enough " have to play well or badly...the word "all" doesn't apply.
CSS reflects scoring patterns which may or may not be influenced by weather. It could just as easily be influenced by the amount of Grog imbibed during the Social event the night before..
 
Imurg said:
You're forgetting that, for CSS to move, only "enough " have to play well or badly...the word "all" doesn't apply.
CSS reflects scoring patterns which may or may not be influenced by weather. It could just as easily be influenced by the amount of Grog imbibed during the Social event the night before..
Click to expand...
At our club we are all sober as judges before a comp, but not necessarily afterwards! :)
 
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