Unplayable

rulie

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Just confirming that the player is required to drop the ball each time when taking successive unplayable penalties. The next two club-length relief area begins where the dropped ball came to rest. The dropped ball might roll one club-length back towards the original spot, and that's just tough darts.
 

Colin L

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its a shot penalty after every 2 club lengths, so you would have had 3 penalty shots. Once you have taken 2 club lengths, the option of going back to the tee is eradicated.
Not so. See Post #5 and also clarification 19.2/3 which Steven mentioned.
 
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rulefan

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Once you have taken 2 club lengths, the option of going back to the tee is eradicated.
It's ok if you have simply dropped the ball and add one additional penalty stroke but if you make a stroke you cannot go back to the tee.
 
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SwingsitlikeHogan

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Just confirming that the player is required to drop the ball each time when taking successive unplayable penalties. The next two club-length relief area begins where the dropped ball came to rest. The dropped ball might roll one club-length back towards the original spot, and that's just tough darts.
What can the player do, in respect of lateral relief, if two club lengths from his ball‘s resting place does not take him to a position where it is possible for him to drop his ball. An obvious scenario is that it is in, such as, a gorse thicket, is more than two club lengths from any edge, and the player is unable to get into the thicket to drop it. The answer to this might well be…Nothing…Tough cheese. Drop on line back in line with flag or S&D.
 

rulie

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What can the player do, in respect of lateral relief, if two club lengths from his ball‘s resting place does not take him to a position where it is possible for him to drop his ball. An obvious scenario is that it is in, such as, a gorse thicket, is more than two club lengths from any edge, and the player is unable to get into the thicket to drop it. The answer to this might well be…Nothing…Tough cheese. Drop on line back in line with flag or S&D.
You've answered your own question.
When taking lateral relief, the player must drop a ball within the two club-length relief area before he can take another lateral relief for unplayable and then measure two club-lengths from where the dropped ball came to rest.
Lateral relief for unplayable does not guarantee two club-lengths from where the ball lies. Once dropped, the ball could roll back into the original spot, and that's what the player must then deal with. There is no guarantee regarding the next stroke to be made.
 

rulefan

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What can the player do, in respect of lateral relief, if two club lengths from his ball‘s resting place does not take him to a position where it is possible for him to drop his ball. An obvious scenario is that it is in, such as, a gorse thicket, is more than two club lengths from any edge, and the player is unable to get into the thicket to drop it. The answer to this might well be…Nothing…Tough cheese. Drop on line back in line with flag or S&D.
The 'unplayable' rule giving you the option of taking lateral relief does not guarantee that such relief is physically possible. In fact it does not guarantee that 'back on line' relief is physically possible.
The only option that is always available is S&D (unless there has been an earthquake or volcanic eruption say ;) ).
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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The 'unplayable' rule giving you the option of taking lateral relief does not guarantee that such relief is physically possible. In fact it does not guarantee that 'back on line' relief is physically possible.
The only option that is always available is S&D (unless there has been an earthquake or volcanic eruption say ;) ).
I knew that I knew the answer to my own question but as I’ve never been in the situation to try and do it, a smidgin of doubt entered my thinking and so just thought best to ask.

Same happened on Saturday when, playing temps, one of my fourball was insistent that he could putt from the main green, as he and others he plays with do that, I was absolutely clear in my mind about ‘Wrong Green’ but just to be sure I checked, and Rule 13.1f confirmed my understanding. But blimey he was adamant.
 

jim8flog

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Having a little brain fade…on above…when taking relief from an unplayable lie, MUST the player drop his ball before taking such relief a second and then again, in this instance, a third time. Or can he just measure 4 or 6 club from his ball’s original position to determine his point of relief. I can see that it could be completely impractical to do intermediate drops, but can also see that ball position after each drop would determine fine point of relief.
You have answered your own question in the last sentence

The point with taking a drop on each occasion verses taking 6 club lengths is that each relief area must be taken from where the ball comes to rest (within the rule) it may come to rest where it originally lay, so getting to the final point may take more than 3 drops.
 

Swango1980

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I knew that I knew the answer to my own question but as I’ve never been in the situation to try and do it, a smidgin of doubt entered my thinking and so just thought best to ask.

Same happened on Saturday when, playing temps, one of my fourball was insistent that he could putt from the main green, as he and others he plays with do that, I was absolutely clear in my mind about ‘Wrong Green’ but just to be sure I checked, and Rule 13.1f confirmed my understanding. But blimey he was adamant.
I saw that in the group behind me yesterday, who were playing a Winter League match. Temp green was in play and short of green, but player hugely overshot this and ended up very near the back of the main green. As I looked back, I saw him with his putter out, taking a huge putt off the main green to the temp.

On our 14th, the temp green is the front fringe of the main green. Obviously, many people will overhit this and it ends on main green. Never seen one person take a drop off the main green. This could turn a 10 foot putt to a very long pitch, based on the geometry of the hole.
 

SwingsitlikeHogan

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I saw that in the group behind me yesterday, who were playing a Winter League match. Temp green was in play and short of green, but player hugely overshot this and ended up very near the back of the main green. As I looked back, I saw him with his putter out, taking a huge putt off the main green to the temp.

On our 14th, the temp green is the front fringe of the main green. Obviously, many people will overhit this and it ends on main green. Never seen one person take a drop off the main green. This could turn a 10 foot putt to a very long pitch, based on the geometry of the hole.
On a few of our holes - if you end up on the green (or even if just your stance is on the green) when a temp is in play, your NPR can give you a nightmare of a shot to the temp, over a bunker or having to negotiate all sorts of humps, hollows and rough. The complaints of ‘unfair’ are loud…tough - I shrug. Been there; Seen it, and had to do it.

Just wonder how many don’t. Truth is I don’t particularly care what they do, unless they are in same comp as me, as long as they know the rule for when it matters. I fear many don’t - as is the case for so many rule scenarios. So be it. In golf Acceptance and Honesty are my watchwords, and I aim to keep my side of the street clean.
 

Swango1980

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On a few of our holes - if you end up on the green (or even if just your stance is on the green) when a temp is in play, your NPR can give you a nightmare of a shot to the temp, over a bunker or having to negotiate all sorts of humps, hollows and rough. The complaints of ‘unfair’ are loud…tough - I shrug. Been there; Seen it, and had to do it.

Just wonder how many don’t. Truth is I don’t particularly care what they do, unless they are in same comp as me, as long as they know the rule for when it matters. I fear many don’t - as is the case for so many rule scenarios. So be it. In golf Acceptance and Honesty are my watchwords, and I aim to keep my side of the street clean.
I'd say close to 100% don't. I've never even seen Committee members take relief, or advise it. I've also played a bit with one of our greenkeepers, and ge wouldn't take relief
 

jim8flog

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I knew that I knew the answer to my own question but as I’ve never been in the situation to try and do it, a smidgin of doubt entered my thinking and so just thought best to ask.

Same happened on Saturday when, playing temps, one of my fourball was insistent that he could putt from the main green, as he and others he plays with do that, I was absolutely clear in my mind about ‘Wrong Green’ but just to be sure I checked, and Rule 13.1f confirmed my understanding. But blimey he was adamant.

A few years ago we had a major ' re-advertisement ' of the fact that when one green is in play on a hole the other is a 'wrong green' and things started to go well Most players will still not know that now includes stance and judging by some of the divot holes on temp greens there are a lot of players that do not even know the basics.
 

backwoodsman

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The problem of temporary greens is rather fraught with danger. A wrong green is any green other than the one being played. But in order to know whether a green is a different green to the one being played, you need to know where one ends and the other starts. Which is not as straightforward as might be imagined. If you look at the definition of 'putting green' there are two defined criteria. For most temporary greens (in my experience) neither of these criteria are adequately met.
 

Colin L

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The problem of temporary greens is rather fraught with danger. A wrong green is any green other than the one being played. But in order to know whether a green is a different green to the one being played, you need to know where one ends and the other starts. Which is not as straightforward as might be imagined. If you look at the definition of 'putting green' there are two defined criteria. For most temporary greens (in my experience) neither of these criteria are adequately met.
It makes sense to mark the perimeter of temporary greens, say, with a broken white line.
 

Swango1980

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It makes sense to mark the perimeter of temporary greens, say, with a broken white line.
For us, the this is mainly an issue when the temp green is on fringe of main green, rather than a separate temp green (on a prepared section of fairway)

The separate temp greens are marked. But if they are on fringe, the green keepers don't paint a line between that and main green
 

Colin L

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For us, the this is mainly an issue when the temp green is on fringe of main green, rather than a separate temp green (on a prepared section of fairway)

The separate temp greens are marked. But if they are on fringe, the green keepers don't paint a line between that and main green
Then they should be told to do so? Greenkeepers should be marking the course as specified.
 

Swango1980

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Then they should be told to do so? Greenkeepers should be marking the course as specified.
Well, maybe the Club Sec shoul have a word with the head greenkeeper. Shouldn't be hard, they are the same person :)

In all honesty, I don't think anyone cares if a few golfers step onto main green to take a putt. Putting the flag on fringe does enough to keep the green protected from majority of foot traffic. So maybe they are happy the whole green is still technically in play, albeit flag on fringe.
 

rulefan

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Well, maybe the Club Sec shoul have a word with the head greenkeeper. Shouldn't be hard, they are the same person :)

In all honesty, I don't think anyone cares if a few golfers step onto main green to take a putt. Putting the flag on fringe does enough to keep the green protected from majority of foot traffic. So maybe they are happy the whole green is still technically in play, albeit flag on fringe.
Sloppy thinking.
 
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