Un-hinging wrists too soon on downswing

[washathi]

On my backswing I now hinge my wrists much better than in the past (my pro tells me). But on the downswing I unhinge way too early. So early that as the club arrives at the ball it can get there slightly earlier than my hands.

I just wondered if anyone had any tips on how to un-hinge my wrists at the right time (later) on the downswing. Thanks.

 

[mchacker]

http://youtu.be/7EK9wt99vwM

 

[Foxholer]

Possibly sSlightly less destructive to the house and/or marriage!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgbaHcrZpTo

Other examples can be found by google-ing 'golf pump drill'

 

[the_coach]

Mostly the hands 'unhinge' (cast) early in the downswing because the shoulders arms & hands start the downswing, so the downswing is overly steep & swinging outwards towards the ball/target line first then down, plus the weight then tends to stay on the trail (right with RH) leg because of this outwards upper body swing move leading the downswing so compounding this undesired outcome of losing the angle.

First make sure when your left arm is first parallel to the ground that the left thumb has moved to point at the sky so then the left arm & club shaft will be at a good 90º angle, then just complete the shoulder turn, left shoulder to under chin, while the weight stays supported on the inside of the right foot, when the shoulders stop turning your arms & the club should stop going back too, if the arms carry on the left elbow will collapse (this will also cause the casting unhinging of the angles too soon in the downswing) so it's important the shoulders arms & club stop at the top together.

Then important you feel the weight on the left foot starts the downswing while feeling your back stays looking at the target a ways, then just keep the head upper body behind the ball, weight firmly on the left leg at you swing downwards (not outwards) & swing through the ball to a balanced finish.

 

[washathi]

Thanks very much for the advice - I'll try it out on the range, including the "wall" drill My pro's advice was in line with the_coach. I consistently start the downswing with my hands.

 

[CMAC]

Mostly the hands 'unhinge' (cast) early in the downswing because the shoulders arms & hands start the downswing, so the downswing is overly steep & swinging outwards towards the ball/target line first then down, plus the weight then tends to stay on the trail (right with RH) leg because of this outwards upper body swing move leading the downswing so compounding this undesired outcome of losing the angle.

First make sure when your left arm is first parallel to the ground that the left thumb has moved to point at the sky so then the left arm & club shaft will be at a good 90º angle, then just complete the shoulder turn, left shoulder to under chin, while the weight stays supported on the inside of the right foot, when the shoulders stop turning your arms & the club should stop going back too, if the arms carry on the left elbow will collapse (this will also cause the casting unhinging of the angles too soon in the downswing) so it's important the shoulders arms & club stop at the top together.

Then important you feel the weight on the left foot starts the downswing while feeling your back stays looking at the target a ways, then just keep the head upper body behind the ball, weight firmly on the left leg at you swing downwards (not outwards) & swing through the ball to a balanced finish.

:clap::thup:

 

[lex!]

A very interesting thread. I have been learning for a few months and the swing I am being taught is to keep the wrists OUT of it. It was explained to me that it would take exceptional timing to co-ordinate wrist hinge and unhinge, leving aside casting all the energy away on the downswing. I was told to feel the big muscles in the coil in the backswing, stomach and back, against a solid base in the legs.

 

[CMAC]

A very interesting thread. I have been learning for a few months and the swing I am being taught is to keep the wrists OUT of it. It was explained to me that it would take exceptional timing to co-ordinate wrist hinge and unhinge, leving aside casting all the energy away on the downswing. I was told to feel the big muscles in the coil in the backswing, stomach and back, against a solid base in the legs.

how do you make a swing past waist high with no wrist cock? it's a very natural thing to do and the 'timing' happens when body and arms work together.

Is this a Pro telling you this?

 

[bobmac]

how do you make a swing past waist high with no wrist cock?

Is this a Pro telling you this?

Real and feel

 

[lex!]

how do you make a swing past waist high with no wrist cock? it's a very natural thing to do and the 'timing' happens when body and arms work together.

Is this a Pro telling you this?

No, the bloke in the corner down the pub. Only joking. Perhaps I did not explain it well enough. The words are to use the big muscles in the swing, not the small muscles. So, legs, back and core(stomach), not hands and fingers. So, lock the hands at the address position and maintain that position throughout the swing.

 

[Break90]

No, the bloke in the corner down the pub. Only joking. Perhaps I did not explain it well enough. The words are to use the big muscles in the swing, not the small muscles. So, legs, back and core(stomach), not hands and fingers. So, lock the hands at the address position and maintain that position throughout the swing.

IMO thats not great advice, unless you only want to hit the ball about 50 yards at a time. Club head can't past parallel even with a flu shoulder turn.

I'd ask the bloke in the corner down the pub, he might give you some better advice lol

 

[lex!]

IMO thats not great advice, unless you only want to hit the ball about 50 yards at a time. Club head can't past parallel even with a flu shoulder turn.

I'd ask the bloke in the corner down the pub, he might give you some better advice lol

Nice one! Said his name was bubble or something, didn't know him from Adam.

 

[Break90]

Nice one! Said his name was bubble or something, didn't know him from Adam.

What does Adam think?

 

[virtuocity]

As Bob says- real and feel.

Be very careful when you say things like "my pro tells me to do this", "my pro tells me not to do that"..... chances are the pro is doing his job- teaching you how to correct YOUR swing using FEEL-based moves. This doesn't mean that what he says to do or avoid is

a) what you're actually doing / avoiding or
b) applicable to anyone else's swing

 

[the_coach]

No, the bloke in the corner down the pub. Only joking. Perhaps I did not explain it well enough. The words are to use the big muscles in the swing, not the small muscles. So, legs, back and core(stomach), not hands and fingers. So, lock the hands at the address position and maintain that position throughout the swing.

It's true that you want the swing governed by the 'big' muscles & that you need a good solid base.

True also that in a good sound efficient & workable golf swing you want the hands just to hold securely & in the right positions on the handle & you don't want to 'actively' make the hands do anything.
If the swing motion as a whole is working in the complete way it should, the hands/wrists will set naturally during the backswing & 'release' naturally & at the correct moment in the downswing.

It's also true that active hands in the first 2 feet of the takeaway most likely will have already ruined any opportunity a good set-up had started to provide you to make a good swing.

Ask your Pro again, as you've slightly misunderstood the advice on quiet & still hands, you cannot make a good golf swing with the hands 'locked' in the position they were at address for the full swing motion of the golf swing, that's pretty impossible & wouldn't do you any good anyways.
That's also not what the Pro would have been saying/meaning & certainly not what he would have wanted you to take away from the lesson. Quiet hands/wrists in the first few feet yes, the entire swing back & swing down & through, no.

What he would have wanted is quiet still hands at the very start of the clubs travel back, so no immediate wrist cock/hand set, & certainly no rolling over of the hands & wrists as the club was moved away.

So for the first few feet of travel the slight convex angle in the back of left hand to wrist needs to remain, you actively do 'nothing' with the hands so the 'triangle' formed at address with both arms, & the "y" relationship with the club & 'triangle' remains the same.

Until the arms club "y" shape move away so the hands are just past the right thigh. Then there will be (because of the body turn in posture) a slight softening in the back of the right wrist angle & it will start to hinge back towards the top of the right forearm a little ways at more or less the same time the left hand/wrist will start to cock/set upwards (left thumb starting to point upwards some more towards the sky than behind you.)

So in the motion of the back swing somewhere between just before the left arm is parallel to the ground & also parallel to the toe line, & ball/target line, the angle which will eventually be around 90º (between left arm & shaft) will be gradually setting, as the left hand sets 'upwards' & the right hand hinges back some.

So for most people (particularly for people who find it a ways hard to set & then hold this 90º 'lag' angle coming down also) better if this left hand/wrist arm to shaft angle is set when the left arm is first parallel to the ground, but at least before the hands reach the height to be level with the right shoulder.

All you do then is complete the body/shoulder turn, make sure when the shoulders stop turning the arms, hands & club stop. Then transition starts from the left lower body first, keeping head & upper body behind the ball position as the arms & right shoulder move 'downwards' towards the ground, not outwards towards the ball & ball/target line.
The left hip has turned & cleared the arms & club swing past the body, the whole right side has come through arms & club swing left & up to a full balanced finish.

So ask your Pro to explain the bit about the hands being 'locked' as you put it throughout the swing motion again, as this is not what he'd have wanted you to take away from the lesson as you're understanding this bit at the moment.

In the meantime here's a really decent explanation of what happens.

[video=youtube_share;STA6p8J1WiE]http://youtu.be/STA6p8J1WiE[/video]

 

[Karl102]

It's true that you want the swing governed by the 'big' muscles & that you need a good solid base.

True also that in a good sound efficient & workable golf swing you want the hands just to hold securely & in the right positions on the handle & you don't want to 'actively' make the hands do anything.
If the swing motion as a whole is working in the complete way it should, the hands/wrists will set naturally during the backswing & 'release' naturally & at the correct moment in the downswing.

It's also true that active hands in the first 2 feet of the takeaway most likely will have already ruined any opportunity a good set-up had started to provide you to make a good swing.

Ask your Pro again, as you've slightly misunderstood the advice on quiet & still hands, you cannot make a good golf swing with the hands 'locked' in the position they were at address for the full swing motion of the golf swing, that's pretty impossible & wouldn't do you any good anyways.
That's also not what the Pro would have been saying/meaning & certainly not what he would have wanted you to take away from the lesson. Quiet hands/wrists in the first few feet yes, the entire swing back & swing down & through, no.

What he would have wanted is quiet still hands at the very start of the clubs travel back, so no immediate wrist cock/hand set, & certainly no rolling over of the hands & wrists as the club was moved away.

So for the first few feet of travel the slight convex angle in the back of left hand to wrist needs to remain, you actively do 'nothing' with the hands so the 'triangle' formed at address with both arms, & the "y" relationship with the club & 'triangle' remains the same.

Until the arms club "y" shape move away so the hands are just past the right thigh. Then there will be (because of the body turn in posture) a slight softening in the back of the right wrist angle & it will start to hinge back towards the top of the right forearm a little ways at more or less the same time the left hand/wrist will start to cock/set upwards (left thumb starting to point upwards some more towards the sky than behind you.)

So in the motion of the back swing somewhere between just before the left arm is parallel to the ground & also parallel to the toe line, & ball/target line, the angle which will eventually be around 90º (between left arm & shaft) will be gradually setting, as the left hand sets 'upwards' & the right hand hinges back some.

So for most people (particularly for people who find it a ways hard to set & then hold this 90º 'lag' angle coming down also) better if this left hand/wrist arm to shaft angle is set when the left arm is first parallel to the ground, but at least before the hands reach the height to be level with the right shoulder.

All you do then is complete the body/shoulder turn, make sure when the shoulders stop turning the arms, hands & club stop. Then transition starts from the left lower body first, keeping head & upper body behind the ball position as the arms & right shoulder move 'downwards' towards the ground, not outwards towards the ball & ball/target line.
The left hip has turned & cleared the arms & club swing past the body, the whole right side has come through arms & club swing left & up to a full balanced finish.

So ask your Pro to explain the bit about the hands being 'locked' as you put it throughout the swing motion again, as this is not what he'd have wanted you to take away from the lesson as you're understanding this bit at the moment.

In the meantime here's a really decent explanation of what happens.

[video=youtube_share;STA6p8J1WiE]http://youtu.be/STA6p8J1WiE[/video]

Great informative video! Thanks ! :thup:

 

[lex!]

Thanks to everyone for replies. As i commented to OP, a very interesting thread. Real and feel, that's a good way of explaining my understanding too. My early vids showed me casting from the top of the swing, and it's the wrist slap that I have been working to eliminate. I understand too that what works for me may not be appropriate for anyone else, and another lesson I have learnt is to throw away the instruction pages after buying a golf mag and don't watch utube instruction vids, apart from maybe putting practice drill tips. When my teacher is with me he's giving me 100% of his time, 100% to me, so that's the advice I heed.

 

[SocketRocket]

I think the guy down the pub is not so stupid.

Address a mid iron.
Without doing anything with your wrists bend your elbows and push the club up over your right shoulder.
Make a 90 deg shoulder tuen to the right.
Push your arms away from your body.

You will now be in a beautiful backswing position with no wrist manipulation.

 

[dsanders9944]

This is a very commom error that most golfers make. Firstly make sure you're not trying to scoop the ball up as this can force this position on impact. Secondly make sure you are not trying to hit the shot too early from the top of the backswing, this can quite often lead to the right wrist extending too early. It's a bit of guess work and would be nice to see your swing. Try this tip, may help your fault[video=youtube_share;GrO8zIOweLU]http://youtu.be/GrO8zIOweLU[/video]

 

[lex!]

Thought I would bump this thread with a comment I read in an interview with Dennis Pugh. When I previously mentioned that I was being taught to keep my wrists quiet, some posts were dismissive of this.

As a tour coach, give us an insight into the technical aspects you look at in a good swing?
Three fundamentals: leverage, balance and plane. Essentially you want to take the ‘flippiness' out of the wrists. That is something that all coaches at tour level are basically working on. You still need to have good forearm rotation – but you don't want to over-involve the wrists.