Two quick questions...

[Kellfire]

I play up to a par 3 and I'm just in the fringe. My pitch mark lies directly between myself and the hole. I know I can't repair it.

However playing partner plays up and is directly behind me. Can he repair my pitch mark to play? If so, must I recreate it before I play?


Second question... Playing partner duffs a chip into the bunker and then throws his wedge into the bunker in anger. Is there a penalty for "grounding his club"?

 

[Deleted member 15344]

I play up to a par 3 and I'm just in the fringe. My pitch mark lies directly between myself and the hole. I know I can't repair it.

However playing partner plays up and is directly behind me. Can he repair my pitch mark to play? If so, must I recreate it before I play?


Second question... Playing partner duffs a chip into the bunker and then throws his wedge into the bunker in anger. Is there a penalty for "grounding his club"?

Is the pitch mark on the green ?

 

[Kellfire]

Nope, I could repair that. This is on the fringe.

 

[Foxholer]

I play up to a par 3 and I'm just in the fringe. My pitch mark lies directly between myself and the hole. I know I can't repair it.

However playing partner plays up and is directly behind me. Can he repair my pitch mark to play? If so, must I recreate it before I play?

No; So if he does, you must 'recreate your lie' before you play.

Second question... Playing partner duffs a chip into the bunker and then throws his wedge into the bunker in anger. Is there a penalty for "grounding his club"?

Yes! 13-4b

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Nope, I could repair that. This is on the fringe.

Then i believe if he does repair it then you have to "put it back"

And yes it is a penalty for your PP

 

[rulefan]

Yes! 13-4b

Throwing club into a bunker is the eqivalent of dropping a club or rake. No penalty

 

[Kellfire]

Uh oh. We have disagreement!

 

[bozza]

Throwing club into a bunker is the eqivalent of dropping a club or rake. No penalty

Rule 13-4b say the exception is "places club in hazard"

He threw it in the bunker where his ball lied in frustration.

 

[palindromicbob]

I play up to a par 3 and I'm just in the fringe. My pitch mark lies directly between myself and the hole. I know I can't repair it.

However playing partner plays up and is directly behind me. Can he repair my pitch mark to play? If so, must I recreate it before I play?


Second question... Playing partner duffs a chip into the bunker and then throws his wedge into the bunker in anger. Is there a penalty for "grounding his club"?

With this in mind I'd say 2 stroke penalty. His ball now lies in the bunker before he thew the club and as such I would feel he has fallen foul of 13-4b. Don't feel the exceptions to rule 13-4 apply in this case.

 

[Colin L]

There is a substantial difference between taking and angry swing with your club and hitting the sand and throwing your club such that when it hits the sand you are no longer holding it.

It is as Rulefan says in post #6

 

[Foxholer]

Throwing club into a bunker is the eqivalent of dropping a club or rake. No penalty

Rule 13-4b say the exception is "places club in hazard"

He threw it in the bunker where his ball lied in frustration.

Doh! Forgot about the exception! I've taken my clubs - though always the whole bag and inside the bag - into plenty of bunkers! Another one to remember!

 

[palindromicbob]

Doh! Forgot about the exception! I've taken my clubs - though always the whole bag and inside the bag - into plenty of bunkers! Another one to remember!

Hard to accept that throwing in anger and placing can be considered as the same action but so goes it.

 

[Foxholer]

Hard to think that throwing in anger and placing can be considered as the same action. Although I suppose it makes sense otherwise McIlroy would have lost more than his 3 iron

Yeah, the ones into the pond - like McIroy's - should have jigged a realisation too! I think Sergio's 5-iron was after he played another ball.There's a difference though between seeking 'justice' for a tantrum and applying the Rules. If every tantrum was penalised, there'd be some high scores!

 

[palindromicbob]

Yeah, the ones into the pond - like McIroy's - should have jigged a realisation too! I think Sergio's 5-iron was after he played another ball.There's a difference though between seeking 'justice' for a tantrum and applying the Rules. If every tantrum was penalised, there'd be some high scores!

It's more the fact the tantrum would seem to directly breach 13-4b on the surface of things before you look further into it. I suppose tantrums could be seen as a breech of etiquette and be acted upon if a committee felt the need to.

 

[MashieNiblick]

Decision 13-4/21 - Rake Thrown into Bunker Before Stroke - indicates that throwing a rake into a bunker is the same under the Rules as placing it.

Q. A player's ball lies in a bunker. He casually throws a rake into the bunker for use after his stroke. The rake does not move his ball or improve the lie of the ball. Does the player incur a penalty?

A. Placing a rake in a bunker is permissible. In this case, throwing the rake into the bunker was the equivalent of placing it.

If the rake had moved the ball, the player would incur a penalty of one stroke for causing his ball to move; and the ball would have to be replaced – Rule 18-2a.

Seems logical that this should also apply to a club (i.e throwing is the equivalent of placing).

 

[Beezerk]

I'd recommend ruling 72-Z, pack in playing golf if you get angry enough to launch your clubs into a bunker

 

[hovis]

Recently Jordan speith hit a bunker shot and it rolled back into the bunker. He then droped his club in a strop.
The rules official said it wasn't grounding his club because he wasn't in contact with the club.

So i see it as no penalty. How can you be testing the hazards if you're not in contact with the club?

 

[Foxholer]

Recently Jordan speith hit a bunker shot and it rolled back into the bunker. He then droped his club in a strop.
The rules official said it wasn't grounding his club because he wasn't in contact with the club.

So i see it as no penalty. How can you be testing the hazards if you're not in contact with the club?

For those guys, the bunkers are so manicured and consistent, 'testing the surface' is a pretty irrelevant term anyway! Most of them would sooner be in a bunker than in long-ish rough!

 

[Colin L]

Recently Jordan speith hit a bunker shot and it rolled back into the bunker. He then droped his club in a strop.
The rules official said it wasn't grounding his club because he wasn't in contact with the club.

So i see it as no penalty. How can you be testing the hazards if you're not in contact with the club?

Just to clarify, just touching the ground of the bunker with a club or hand is a breach of Rule 13-4b. It does not have to be done with the intention of testing its condition which is a separate matter (13-4a). The factor in the Jordan Speith situation was that he was not holding his club.

 

[Kellfire]

Just to clarify, just touching the ground of the bunker with a club or hand is a breach of Rule 13-4b. It does not have to be done with the intention of testing its condition which is a separate matter (13-4a). The factor in the Jordan Speith situation was that he was not holding his club.

But Spieth (or my PP in my case) must touch the club to pick it up again... thus hand, club and bunker are in contact at the same time... breech?