TW - ever a "Great' ?

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Screwback

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THE ALL TIME BEST PLAYER TO PLAY THE GAME EVER PERIOD


The other players mentioned in your post had no where near the same amount of media scrutiny that tiger does.

Also what difference is it if tiger is different on the course you admit yourself he is a great golfer but its his antics off the course that have lost the "respect" so why should he have to change when he returns???

I think i have worked it out your actually mickelson and are feeling like your no quite good enough ;)
 
(Also posted as a reply to Dodger on the TW/Masters thread....But I thought it would make a good debate...... )

In my eyes, (and I would bet a helluva lot of the global golf viewing public,) I would regard 'respect' and overall admiration of someone's persona to be an integral part of becoming a 'Great'.

TW has now lost most of the worlds respect as a person, and certainly I'm sure that of a lot of Golf's heirarchy, not least of which for the manner he has single handedly tarnished the Sport in his grubby way.

I dont care how many more Majors he wins, or billions he earns, he will never be treat with as much affection and warmth as a true great that walked down this years Open final hole, Tom Watson.

There simply isnt another of the worlds best players over the years that have conducted themselves quite as badly on, or off the course, as TW.
Nicklaus, Watson, Seve, Norman, Palmer, Trevino, Player, have all been complete and utter 100% Gentlemen, gratious in defeat, and glorious in success, and wthout a hint of petulance or arrogance.

Unless TW comes back as someone totally different, he wont ever be thought of in the same veign. Period.

Great Golfer....undoubted.
One of Golf's Greats' ? - No way.
 
Couldn't disagree more. Whatever happens in his personal life is just that - personal. Its his golfing ability he'll be remembered for and as such has every right to be classed as one of the games greats. Don't think for one minute that the golfing fans particularly in the US are going to turn on him because of the meltdown in his personal life.

He'll eventually beat Nicklaus's record and then tere will be nothing to stop him being called the greatest. Do you really think in 50 years time when people look at the history books it'll say - Most major wins but a lousy husband?

I've never really been a Tiger fan in the same way as I was with Seve and Faldo as both excited me everytime they play. Woods is robotic in his approach and so its hard to be endeared to him. That doesn't stop me as a frustrated golfer admiring his talent and especially his clutch putting.

Don't forget he's also giving millions to charitable causes including his own Foundation so I don't think he can be truely classed as evil. Plenty of other golfers have extra-marital affairs and end up divorced. Its only because of the huge media hype surrounding every aspect of his professional and personal life that it became such a big deal in the first place.

I'm sure once he has gone through a suitable period of rehabilitation both on and off the course, sponsors will realise he is still the main man, crowds will continue to adore him and titles will keep coming his way. What ever else happens doesn't really bother me. He'll be classed as a great and rightly so.
 
THE ALL TIME BEST PLAYER TO PLAY THE GAME EVER PERIOD
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No, he's not.

Aside from financical earnings, by any other measure he is not the greatest player ever and may never be.

True greatness in sport transcends the events on the playing field and a measure of the person also counts towards genuine greatness.

He will, at best, be a 'great of the game'.
 
I see where Chris is coming from.

Winning loads of majors is one thing, but the greats have another dimension that Tiger will never have.

Anyway, for my money Nicklaus remains the greatest player. Tiger will probably surpass his haul of majors, but maybe not.
 
Tiger is a product of pressure from the age of about 3. More media coverage when he plays?... I dont really think so. More when he is not playing?... Definitely.
Do I like what hes done?... I dont care.
Do I like him as a person?...Less and less as time goes by.
Do I think he is an all time great player?...Yes, but he doesnt have the appeal greats like Seve,Watson,Nicklaus and others.
 
Yes i believe TW will be the greatest golfer ever soon so in my eyes that makes him a great.You mentioned a tarnished reputation,maybe so but it will be forgotten in time.One person that comes to mind is MARADONA,completely tarnished his reputation with the hand of god then his drug addiction but is generally regarded as a great especially in his own country and SCOTLAND.
 
Like many others I have no interest in his off course antics. I will focus purely on him as a golfer.

As I see it there are two side to been a golfer at that level. The ability to play the game and how you conduct yourself.

On the former he is one of, if not the best ever. Can hit every shot under any situation. On the latter he is not a patch on some of the other 'greats', Nicklaus, Palmer, Player etc.

Having never had the pleasure to meet any of them in person I can only basis this on TV and others opinions.
 
I'm not a great Tiger Woods supporter, but he is without doubt the greatest golfer to hit a golf ball. A smile wouldn't go amiss but hey that doesn't make you the greatest. Results make you the greatest. Jack Nicholas best scoring average in career 69.81 Tiger Woods since 1996 has only once been worse than this.

Greg Norman- Really messy divorce. Great?
Diago Maradonna- Drugs & Tax evasion. Great?
George Best- Drink. Great?
Alex Higgins- Drink & drugs. Great?
Mike Tyson- To many faults for here. Great?
Michael Schumacher- Disqualified from the 1997 championship standings and should have been for same thing in 1994, (Trying to force opponent of track to win title). Great?

I'm sure if you tried to argue with followers of the above sports that these people were not greats or the greatest in their sports you would probably be onto a hiding to nothing.

I am begining to sound like a Tiggy Woods fan.
 
So you seem to care more about his activities off the course than on it, not really fair that is it. Does David Beckham stop being a great footballer because he had sex outside of this marriage, how about Brad Pitt? not a good actor anymore cos he left his wife for someone else, and the countless other superstars like George Best all knocking off anything they could get their hands on, no longer good at what they do. Tiger Woods is the worlds number 1 golfer at present and anywhere near his A game cannot be lived with on the course. He deserves respect for the golfer that he is,what he does off the course has no bearing on that fact whatsoever. He is and always will be a great of the game of golf.
 
THE ALL TIME BEST PLAYER TO PLAY THE GAME EVER PERIOD
Click to expand...

No, he's not.

Aside from financical earnings, by any other measure he is not the greatest player ever and may never be.

True greatness in sport transcends the events on the playing field and a measure of the person also counts towards genuine greatness.

He will, at best, be a 'great of the game'.
Click to expand...

Can i just point one thing out here. As many off you know i am very for tiger (hes the reason i enjoy playing the game) and my views on him are purely from a golfing prospective and i have no interst of his off the course antics his financial earnings or indeed what he has for his brekfast.

What i do care about is watching his golfing ability on the telly and there is no one that come close to the excitment he brings to the game sure jack, arnie and the others are good in there own right but they and some by there own admission have said no where need as good as tiger. the standard of golfer comming through the amateur ranks is exceptional and this is partly due to the coverage of the game tiger has brought. he has so many records its ridiculous and the only one he has not got are the majors.

According to speculation he has been a naughty boy off the pitch but this is a golf forum and its his golfing ability that should be discussed
 
Lets not forget Norman has been through a number of divorces, a few bad business deals. Seve was well known for trying to push the boundaries of the rulebook as far as he could. Not exactly in keeping with the spirit of the game but a pro at the top of his game looking for an edge.

Faldo. Driven and isolated. A number of messy divorces but still the most successful British player of modern times and a grat of the game.

At the end of the day its a career and not a popularity contest. Players will be judged on their achivements not how many times they signed an autograph or smiled for the camera. Its the same in all walks of life. Lester Piggot, Alex Higgins, George Best, OJ Simpson, Maradonna, Tyson. All legends in their own sports but all with tattered reputations and personal lives. It doesn't detract from what they achieved.
 
It appears to me that most people accept the fact that Tiger is a great golfer.
The point of contention seems to be whether his many affairs has meant he will not be remembered solely for his golf.
I personally grew up watching Jack, Arnie, Watson, Player etc and I still respect their golfing abilities as well as their gentleman-like qualities.
You never saw Jack, Arnie or the other greats spit, swear or throw clubs.
Think back to a certain Sunday at Augusta when Greg Norman had a bit of a mare. Did anyone see him throw his toys out of the cot.

To be a great golfer you need to play well.
To be a great you need to be the whole package.

Ask any tennis fan....was John McEnroe a great?

This arguement will go on for many years to come and no-one will change thier side.
Will he be remembered as a great?
Many will but many won't.
I think it's just one to agree to disagree.
 
I think it is slightly unfair to compare Tiger against the other names mentioned here. The media behaves in a different way to how they did in the Jones/Palmer/Nicklaus/Player/Trevino eras.

Tiger's behaviour was jumped upon and reported in a way that would never have happened in their time. So it is not a fair comparison.

Nostalgia is a wonderful thing that tends to put rose-tinted spectacles on people.

Sport and life is often about redemption and Tiger's challenge is to redeem himself, his career and the respect people held him in over the coming years.
 
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