TM SLDR - Launch Monitor Stats

[mab]

There's been quite a lot of recent talk re: optimal launch conditions and, in particular, the SLDR driver.

I use a Flightscope launch monitor near to where I live and have a baseline for my clubs including my driver previous to the SLDR, the Cleveland Classic XL. I thought some of you may find the stats from my recent session with the SLDR interesting so have included them below.

For reference, with my previous driver on the same launch monitor, from memory I was averaging:

Launch: 12.5*
Spin: 2600rpm
Ballspeed: 148mph

As you can see from the SLDR stats below, these numbers have improved. Paired with a Tour AD DI-6s shaft and on the 11.5* loft setting with slider weight set to neutral, my averages were:

Launch: 13.5*
Spin: 2300rpm
Ballspeed: 150mph

These numbers were achieved with an upward AoA in the region of 2-3* on average.

Ignoring total distance, the carry distance for all shots was between 240-250yards which I'm very pleased with and which is better than the previous drivers I've had on my local launch monitor.

I'd still like to get my launch angle up a bit together with peak height, but am unsure how to do this. I already have an upward angle of attack, the shaft I am using is one of the higher launching shafts available in the 'low spin' category. Furthermore, simply increasing the loft results in increased spin.

So, with my swing and with the technology currently available, I think this is about the best I can do.

Ps. Playing on my course this weekend just gone, I felt I was penalised somewhat on slightly off centre strikes. However, when on the launch monitor (and perhaps I was in more of a driver 'groove') I didn't feel that whatsoever; the club felt no less forgiving than others I have tried and I know a number of strikes in the photo above were not hit on the screws.

 

[Alex1975]

Thanks for this.


I believe the Cleveland Classic is low spin too so nice to see you have still found a better option.

 

[duncan mackie]

I'd still like to get my launch angle up a bit.....

13.5 with a dev of 1.2 looks very good - which begs the question? Peak height will go up with spin, which you don't want any more of looking at this.

for your club head speed you have some great numbers there - just get out there and enjoy it.

 

[the_coach]

13.5 with a dev of 1.2 looks very good - which begs the question? Peak height will go up with spin, which you don't want any more of looking at this.

for your club head speed you have some great numbers there - just get out there and enjoy it.

No that doesn't actually happen, peak height will remain in the same window a driver, somewhere as a guide between 36 - 43 yards give or take a smidge here or there, whether your launch angle is around 10-12degs or 12-16degs. The descent angle will be in a similar ball park area of somewhere around 142d.
Thats why in this higher launch low spin debate, golf remains counterintuitive, as those two things with a lower spin rate still produce a little more roll out on landing.

 

[ManinBlack]

I'd love to see the LM figures for an old R7 with, say, 12 degrees of loft & all the weight in the front ports, moving the C of G forward like the SLDR. I'm going to borrow one but it is probably a 10.5, but it will be interesting to see.

 

[the_coach]

There's been quite a lot of recent talk re: optimal launch conditions and, in particular, the SLDR driver.

I'd still like to get my launch angle up a bit together with peak height, but am unsure how to do this. I already have an upward angle of attack, the shaft I am using is one of the higher launching shafts available in the 'low spin' category. Furthermore, simply increasing the loft results in increased spin.

So, with my swing and with the technology currently available, I think this is about the best I can do.

If you want to continue the search for a higher launch angle, here's a couple of things to factor in. (if you haven't already done so)

Set up is key, ball position will need to be checked, you may well find you need to move it forward some.

Also as well as a forward leaning spine angle you also need a 'spine angle that tilts away' from target at address too (this 'tilt away' will need to be kept in the move down and through impact)

This tilt puts everything from right shoulder, right hip, right arm, right knee lower than the corresponding left hand side, your head has to be behind the ball through impact.

To this at set-up it's important that your right arm is not straight at address (this will make your shoulders too level, also slightly open encouraging a steeper out to in swing path)
Left arm is comfortably straight with a slight angle between back of left arm and left hand (left wrist only flat at and through impact) so your right arm has a soft flex in it at the elbow. Arms then if viewed DTL in a mirror, you'd be able to see the top of your left forearm over this softened and slightly lower right arm.

Things that can help to achieve a higher +AoA. Pre-supposing you're set up as above.

To swing with the thought of the lowest point of your swing arc being some 2-3 inches before the driver head reaches the ball, and not swinging thinking the club only moves upwards at and after impact.

To swing also thinking there's and imaginary ghost ball teed up some 2 inches in front and on an inch or so higher tee than the actual ball and your swing path will allow you to 'hit' both 'balls'.

To swing with the feelings mentioned above and feel your right shoulder moves downwards from transition (after your lower body has initiated the transition) and then moves under as your left shoulder moves upwards through impact.
This is what will happen with your shoulders if you've been able to maintain that spine 'tilt away from target', whilst keeping your head behind the ball through impact.

Swing path is also a factor in finding a good +AoA, if your swing path is out to in, it will because of it's direction be naturally steeper so harder to have a good +AoA.

Conversely an in to in, or in to slightly out path (you never really want an exaggerated inside or outside path as this will compromise accuracy to target) will be a naturally shallower approach to impact so it's easier to swing giving a good +AoA.

 

[mab]

...loads of useful info...

Thanks for this - I appreciate you taking the time.

One question though. A lot of what you've stated above references the how... but what are you trying to achieve here? Are you essentially trying to get my AoA from 2-3* up to 5-6* to launch at c.16* with the same spin rate?

For reference, I have an in-to-out swingpath, so I'm not restricting launch potential with an out-to-in path.

 

[Foxholer]

I'd love to see the LM figures for an old R7 with, say, 12 degrees of loft & all the weight in the front ports, moving the C of G forward like the SLDR. I'm going to borrow one but it is probably a 10.5, but it will be interesting to see.

I tried that out with a (10.5) R7 425. Made no noticeable difference. that one was still, disappointingly, a dog!

Good numbers mab. If you really want to extract the most Distance, you could try a softer (or maybe stiffer depending on your swing) version of the same shaft. That's reputedly as high launch/low spin as anything out there! Or maybe try Matrix 6X3 if you are into such exotica? Or even (Bubba Pink?, also available in Blue) Graffaloy BiMatrix?

For optimum results, it really is a case of finding the right combo of Head and Shaft - and LM is the place to do that! Can be almost as good a way to lose time as Golf Forums!

And I'd suggest you work on the rest of your game more too! I'd be 30+ yards behind you, but off a pretty similar handicap!

 

[duncan mackie]

No that doesn't actually happen, peak height will remain in the same window a driver, somewhere as a guide between 36 - 43 yards give or take a smidge here or there, whether your launch angle is around 10-12degs or 12-16degs. The descent angle will be in a similar ball park area of somewhere around 142d.
Thats why in this higher launch low spin debate, golf remains counterintuitive, as those two things with a lower spin rate still produce a little more roll out on landing.

you are stating that peak height will not increase with spin rate (all other things being equal)?

 

[Foxholer]

you are stating that peak height will not increase with spin rate (all other things being equal)?

I'm more confused about the Peak of 36-43 yards! Is that really Peak height (78 ft in mab's session). Or are they 2 different stats (how long the ball is at the Peak for)? The 142 vs 38 descent I can understand (180-38=142).

 

[the_coach]

Thanks for this - I appreciate you taking the time.

One question though. A lot of what you've stated above references the how... but what are you trying to achieve here? Are you essentially trying to get my AoA from 2-3* up to 5-6* to launch at c.16* with the same spin rate?

For reference, I have an in-to-out swingpath, so I'm not restricting launch potential with an out-to-in path.

(Sorry answer bit long, hard to shorten it really.)
From my own experience and from what I've seen at practice on the USPGA tour, and talking to the engineers in the trucks when I've been able too. And other Pro's.

You're looking to find, for optimum longest carry and distance overall (with driver off tee), a good +AoA, high launch angle and low spin rate. This is now only really possible and the 'old' ideal launch conditions have moved for a couple reasons.

One being the development of the golf ball to reduce spin, although this was initially looked into for accuracy and not distance, initially to cut down backspin on the left or right tilted spin axis which is was causes a ball to move left or right.

But a byproduct of this was they began to see the new ball also travelled further under certain launch conditions which got them looking further into this part of the equation as well.

The other part is the way they've been able to develop bigger driver heads because of lighter materials and so experiment more with where the cg can be.
Two clubs so far I've found work best are i25 & Sldr but it holds true for the others too (despite this (Sldr) initially getting bad press and folks saying it was bunk), many PGA teaching pro's now reversing their opinions where before they didn't buy into the new thinking, and high launch/low spin has already had major successes on the USPGA tour.

But Ping and TM have come at finding higher launch low spin with these 2 drivers in slightly different ways as to how the cg is placed and the loft of them both.
Because TM found a way of moving forward the cg some they can use higher lofts on the club, where as Ping so far with the cg slightly differently located have only pushed their loft to 10.5 at the most, so far anyways,
I've used a recently on trackman a 9.5 i25 moved the 0.5 it can be to 10d (borrowed from a friend) as was completely amazed at the results wasn't expecting them at all.
At 10d it was still possible to achieve pretty easily launch angles above 14d, so far I've only used a 10.5 Sldr (again borrowed) achieving similar LA's not really a problem and also being able to keep the spin rates with both around and under 2200rpm.

These though are only possible from a centered strike off the club's sweet spots which I found to be just slightly higher center in depth of the face and in both these clubs the sweet spot was a fraction nearer to the toe end side of center but really only fractionally so. Confirmed by the Trackman overall numbers with the best strikes and that I used impact tapes to see strike.

So in general your looking for a +5 ish AoA with a launch angle of between 14-17 degs, personally the highest i've had experience of with good numbers and the highest I've achieved has been 16.2.
Looking over shoulders (at Trackman data) at practice of the different Pro's I've been able too so far, I have seen their numbers of being between 13 & just over 16. Lots of them have upped the static loft on their drivers but so far they mostly seem a bit coy in wanting to talk about this.
Guess that's still part of the old macho 'my drivers lower loft than yours' that also was prevalent in low amateur golf in wanting to be like the 'pro's'

The important thing to go with this though is you're looking for low spin rates (& not the same as before) as a guide between somewhere around about 1500 rpm to 1900 rpm (but I've found 2500 or under still gives slightly better results soon as you get up over 2500 up 3000 and beyond you don't get the extra distance) have experienced this myself as achievable (and giving better carry + overall distances but also peak height stays in the same window as the older money 10, 11-13 launch angles it's all still between approx 36-43 yards give or take some, plus descent angles don't really move either so its landing the same but with a lot less backspin therefore given good ground conditions it rolls more too.
Lowest spin rate from the sweet spot I got was 1350 rpm which still flew, didn't think that possible, but it is. Can now better see why the TM mantra of 17 & 1700 and the reason behind it, the 1700 part seems a little more easily achievable from what I've seen, just above 16 LA is the most I have seen but doesn't mean it's not possible I guess.

But no question higher launch, low spin rates will give you greater distances in proportion to SS and what BS the strike has transferred.

 

[harpo_72]

I tried that out with a (10.5) R7 425. Made no noticeable difference. that one was still, disappointingly, a dog!

Good numbers mab. If you really want to extract the most Distance, you could try a softer (or maybe stiffer depending on your swing) version of the same shaft. That's reputedly as high launch/low spin as anything out there! Or maybe try Matrix 6X3 if you are into such exotica? Or even (Bubba Pink?, also available in Blue) Graffaloy BiMatrix?

For optimum results, it really is a case of finding the right combo of Head and Shaft - and LM is the place to do that! Can be almost as good a way to lose time as Golf Forums!

And I'd suggest you work on the rest of your game more too! I'd be 30+ yards behind you, but off a pretty similar handicap!

I thought the tour di shaft was a pretty expensive piece of kit, I think if you were to judge this surely it should be apples with apples. What I am saying is the cleveland xl gives pretty good bang for buck.
But it is interesting reading and looks like MAB has some very good driving stats, he is maximising his potential with his smash factor!
Enjoy your season and some 300+ yard drives

 

[the_coach]

you are stating that peak height will not increase with spin rate (all other things being equal)?

I'm saying what I have seen working with Trackman and looking carefully at others who have been.

That if you are working towards high launch low spin rates and achieve that against what was considered ideal launch conditions, the peak height doesn't move much at all.

Example using my own older 9.5 D2 and my recently, bit over 2 weeks ago bought new 9.5 D3 (damn wish I held out on that one now I know slightly different!!) looking at launch angles between 10 & 13d with spin rates between 2600 & 3300 approx against working with borrowed i25 set at 10d, borrowed Sldr set at 10.5 working with launch angles between 13.5 & 16 with spin rates between at widest 1500 and 2000 the peak height for both sets were between a window approx 36 yards & 43 yards, descent angel the same.

The higher launch, lower spin rates gave the longest carry, longest roll out longest overall distances, no question. From the same SS through to BS. I didn't go in to looking at it expecting to find such a complete case, but it definitely worked out that way for sure.

If you are able to check through the 'numbers' of any other Pro's on the web looking into this I'd be totally surprised if they hadn't come up with similar results.

 

[Foxholer]

I thought the tour di shaft was a pretty expensive piece of kit, I think if you were to judge this surely it should be apples with apples. What I am saying is the cleveland xl gives pretty good bang for buck.
But it is interesting reading and looks like MAB has some very good driving stats, he is maximising his potential with his smash factor!
Enjoy your season and some 300+ yard drives

Oh it is! At $380, you'd need to know it suits, byt that Matrix I mentioned was in the same region ($320). The difference probably explained by the fact that Tiger uses it - as do others. The Bi-Matrix, on the other hand is $149!

Anyone who suits the 6M3 Black Tie in the Classic XT Custom would be pretty pleased with the 'bang for buck' though. Headcover absolute rubbish, but my ParrotHead one would be straight on it anyway!

 

[mab]

Good numbers mab. If you really want to extract the most Distance, you could try a softer (or maybe stiffer depending on your swing) version of the same shaft. That's reputedly as high launch/low spin as anything out there! Or maybe try Matrix 6X3 if you are into such exotica? Or even (Bubba Pink?, also available in Blue) Graffaloy BiMatrix?

I don't particularly want to get into number chasing as I think it would become an obsession with an unrealisable goal. The local place is apparently getting the complete Taylormade fitting cart soon so I may well spend an hour there in due course trying different options to see if one can been the Tour AD DI-6s.

However, those numbers are great for me and I'll be ecstatic if they follow me to the course. Which brings me onto my next point...

And I'd suggest you work on the rest of your game more too! I'd be 30+ yards behind you, but off a pretty similar handicap!

If I could drive in real life like the above numbers suggest, I think I'd have a good chance at cat 1 this year. However, my on-course driving is poor and the average reload or two per round really does cost me.

I managed a +3 the other day with no driver in the bag and teeing off solely with my 3Deep, which I've been rather accurate and consistent with recently. I also hit that on the LM and it's surprisingly close to the SLDR for a 3 wood...

There is definitely a lesson in there somewhere.

 

[Foxholer]

I managed a +3 the other day with no driver in the bag and teeing off solely with my 3Deep, which I've been rather accurate and consistent with recently. I also hit that on the LM and it's surprisingly close to the SLDR for a 3 wood...

There is definitely a lesson in there somewhere.

Would keep the Driver until Summer and then re-assess. Don't think you'll be getting 40yds of roll at the moment! In fact, 2 rounds ago, we saw my ball land, but never found it in the soft ground - but not soft enough to be 'abnormal'!

 

[HomerJSimpson]

I'm interested in the TM Launch Up campaign having watched the Crossfield video, reading the exploits of those fitted here and seeing that even MikeH has found a difference. Clearly there is something in it and the numbers in the OP are very good. Personally I am happy with my G25 and just need to use it better but were I in the market for a new big dog, my choices based on a lot of positive feedback here and elsewhere would be I25 vs TM SLDR to start and then maybe hit the Nike and the Titleist.

 

[harpo_72]

I'm interested in the TM Launch Up campaign having watched the Crossfield video, reading the exploits of those fitted here and seeing that even MikeH has found a difference. Clearly there is something in it and the numbers in the OP are very good. Personally I am happy with my G25 and just need to use it better but were I in the market for a new big dog, my choices based on a lot of positive feedback here and elsewhere would be I25 vs TM SLDR to start and then maybe hit the Nike and the Titleist.

Mate your in the market !! We'll be having a sly bet on the day

 

[duncan mackie]

I'm saying what I have seen working with Trackman and looking carefully at others who have been.

That if you are working towards high launch low spin rates and achieve that against what was considered ideal launch conditions, the peak height doesn't move much at all.

Example using my own older 9.5 D2 and my recently, bit over 2 weeks ago bought new 9.5 D3 (damn wish I held out on that one now I know slightly different!!) looking at launch angles between 10 & 13d with spin rates between 2600 & 3300 approx against working with borrowed i25 set at 10d, borrowed Sldr set at 10.5 working with launch angles between 13.5 & 16 with spin rates between at widest 1500 and 2000 the peak height for both sets were between a window approx 36 yards & 43 yards, descent angel the same.

The higher launch, lower spin rates gave the longest carry, longest roll out longest overall distances, no question. From the same SS through to BS. I didn't go in to looking at it expecting to find such a complete case, but it definitely worked out that way for sure.

If you are able to check through the 'numbers' of any other Pro's on the web looking into this I'd be totally surprised if they hadn't come up with similar results.

nope, still confused in this one, very very specific area

I posted...

"Peak height will go up with spin, which you don't want any more of looking at this."

You posted...

"No that doesn't actually happen..."

So what does happen if spin rate is increased whilst keeping everything else constant?

 

[the_coach]

nope, still confused in this one, very very specific area

I posted...

"Peak height will go up with spin, which you don't want any more of looking at this."

You posted...

"No that doesn't actually happen..."

So what does happen if spin rate is increased whilst keeping everything else constant?

My, no, referred to a point of if you are looking to achieve a high launch a +AoA which the OP wanted to achieve (rightly from the tee with a driver) it isn't the case that the back spin has to go up too. When comparing a high launch against what used to be thought of as the old lower then ideal launch angle.

As that kind of path, AoA, higher launch angle and strike will keep the spin rate down if the ball is struck from a centered hit on the face (which on a 460/430 driver's face is slightly higher than central, depth wise and fraction nearer the toe in mm's from center.)

If you do this the peak height won't change, from the 'old money' 9,10, 11 to 12 degree launch angle, these lower launch take longer to get to a peak height of around 36-43 yards, the higher launch 14 to 16 gets to the peak height of 36-43 yards sooner but then reaches ceiling but then carries further on this flight, they descend at similar angles, assuming that both shots are struck properly and well with the same SS and BS.