Timing and hip turn

[woody69]

I think I am losing a lot of power particularly on my drives due to my hips not turning through at the right time. At impact my hips are fairly square to the ball instead of pointing towards the target. Think belt buckle at the ball, rather than ahead of it.

Does anyone have any drills to improve the timing and promote his turn through the ball at impact?

 

[Doh]

One simple thing you can do is to move your left foot so it's at a 45 degree angle ( it will look open ) this will give you room to turn your hips.

 

[the_coach]

real difficult to give any one specific cure-all drill
- as often times it's posture and weight shift issues that is tied in all the ways back to hold on the handle and how that subconsciously affects the instinct to try to get face to ball to get ball to target


so stuff depends on what the 'issue/s' are that maybes at the root cause of the difficulties


(but the best timing drill out there, my take, is one where with a 6i,7i or 8i make a backswing to the top and stop and check exact position - if any overswing then adjust & re-position top of backswing shaft overtop trail shoulder to 3/4 length & with good natural width

and then from that static position start transition from the ground up and swing down and rotate through smoothly to a balanced held finish position - it's a mite difficult to achieve but with practice training can be done it's the single most reliable ways to retrain sync and timing
main thing to remember with this (or any) training drill is to feel the new different position/s and different sync timing of the downswing it's not for a long time of repeated use about getting 'perfect' contacts and 'perfect' shot outcomes until the 'changes' get really acclimatized

{this drill in particular folks will often times see Tour Pro's use in their own training practice if they have had any timing issues - have posted the vid a number times on various threads on the forum - if you should want it will post it up on this thread)


huge generalization but the biggest issue seen often times with real square hips with the driver can initiate with the simple intention to give it too much of a 'crack' and want to 'hit it' a ways too soon
so in reality a little ways too much arms and upper body too soon from the top


which tends to lead to a straighten up of the pelvic angle so a 'stand up' before the strike and hips also move forwards towards the ball weight forwards on to toes - it's then anatomically pretty impossible to turn or rotate the hips


one of the biggest differences between Tour Pro's and any elite golfer who for the most part 'appear' to produce the speed with very little effort as an illusion is that everything is in 'sync'


my take as to one big dynamic movement difference (there's of course grip, set-up and alignment all the statics to get in good shape first off) of the golf swing motion - is elite players 'always' get their weight pressure through the lower body into the lead foot/leg while remaining in the 'sit in' posture angles before they turn/clear and rotate with the 'core (belly button area, chest, & lead shoulder turning left & up)' which leads to great timing and synchronization and that smooth appearance of power


where as many ams have not enough weight into the lower leadside too much still on the trailside as they try to clear&turn which inevitably means the strike won't be real solid from center
or the weight gets into the leadside by shifting the upperbody to target so sternum and head gets too far forwards to target - players 'center' gone past the ball then pretty impossible from that position


get it's real boring and not many folks want to do this (as small shots with wedge don't appear to have any relevance to driver issues) but hitting 3/4 wedges at no more than 60% effort just concentrating on that timing and balance is a great ways to start to learn how to time and sync up a swing


also training to swing a driver at 50% effort but still a full swing to send ball out on target line with center strike and still be able to feel the timing and sync motion harmony felt in the wedge swing as regards to weight pressure, trail elbow to front of trail hip and clear and rotate is also a great way to build sync


a full swing driver at 50% with good strike and ball/target starting direction retaining balance is a tad difficult to sync up takes some perseverance first off - but if the sync isn't there at 50% it's unlikely to be there at 85%


(on stance if lead foot has as a norm been at 90º to target line with toes pointing to 12 (clock face) have the toes turned little ways to target so pointing someways around 10.30 - 11.00 - so around 75º - 80º)

 

[woody69]

this drill in particular folks will often times see Tour Pro's use in their own training practice if they have had any timing issues - have posted the vid a number times on various threads on the forum - if you should want it will post it up on this thread

Yes please, if you wouldn't mind, that would be great.

huge generalization but the biggest issue seen often times with real square hips with the driver can initiate with the simple intention to give it too much of a 'crack' and want to 'hit it' a ways too soon so in reality a little ways too much arms and upper body too soon from the top which tends to lead to a straighten up of the pelvic angle so a 'stand up' before the strike and hips also move forwards towards the ball weight forwards on to toes - it's then anatomically pretty impossible to turn or rotate the hips one of the biggest differences between Tour Pro's and any elite golfer who for the most part 'appear' to produce the speed with very little effort as an illusion is that everything is in 'sync'

I think this may be my problem. Watching a slow mo video of pros hitting the driver the position of their hips versus arms compared to mine is like night and day, with my arms pulling down and through so much quicker than it should be. It's why I want to work on it.


Thanks also for the other tips. 3/4 wedges is a good one I hadn't thought about as that definitely promotes timing and balance. And will also try full swing at 50% with the driver.

 

[the_coach]

as always with the golf motion linked sequence
the sequence as it develops is only as good as the motion it follows

so for this drill to work it's real important the top position of the backswing that's stopped (and stopped at the top not just paused for a split second not that's not as easy as it sound most folks thin they have stopped but when you play the vid back it looks like continuos motion still) is in a pretty decent ball park place, turn stayed in posture so the top has the shaft in a ball park area overtop of tip of trial shoulder with lead wrist pretty flat (don't want a big 'cupped' lead wrist)

so from first off attempts maybes a deal likely that it won't just be stopping at the top but stopping and repositioning that atop position
obviously in the vid the Pro doing the drill does get pretty automatically into a pretty decent top position

[video=youtube;kxg0p-Ma72Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxg0p-Ma72Y[/video]

from the top stopped position it's feeling weight pressure first off into lead leg along with slight bump of the hips to target direction then arms move with upper body - but it's fractions of a second in time differences to the sequence

notice the hands handle move out on a plane arc that's around 45% to target line - but they move out & down - not just down

folks say 'out'? that will mean swinging out over the top what trying to get rid of
but the difference is it's not the shoulders, the trail shoulder moving out and over
with the good hand path out the trail shoulder will rotate down and out on a good arc

so the real keys, my take through study, weight pressure has to get into the lead leg the hands/arms have to sync up with the upper body rotation to deliver the trail elbow in front of the trail hip then everything - lead hip turns and clear against the weight pressure through the lead leg and the upper body in posture, the left pec left shoulder rotates hard left - that what you've been seeing in the Pro's swings you've been looking at

 

[woody69]

as always with the golf motion linked sequence
the sequence as it develops is only as good as the motion it follows

so for this drill to work it's real important the top position of the backswing that's stopped (and stopped at the top not just paused for a split second not that's not as easy as it sound most folks thin they have stopped but when you play the vid back it looks like continuos motion still) is in a pretty decent ball park place, turn stayed in posture so the top has the shaft in a ball park area overtop of tip of trial shoulder with lead wrist pretty flat (don't want a big 'cupped' lead wrist)

so from first off attempts maybes a deal likely that it won't just be stopping at the top but stopping and repositioning that atop position
obviously in the vid the Pro doing the drill does get pretty automatically into a pretty decent top position

[video=youtube;kxg0p-Ma72Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxg0p-Ma72Y[/video]

from the top stopped position it's feeling weight pressure first off into lead leg along with slight bump of the hips to target direction then arms move with upper body - but it's fractions of a second in time differences to the sequence

notice the hands handle move out on a plane arc that's around 45% to target line - but they move out & down - not just down

folks say 'out'? that will mean swinging out over the top what trying to get rid of
but the difference is it's not the shoulders, the trail shoulder moving out and over
with the good hand path out the trail shoulder will rotate down and out on a good arc

so the real keys, my take through study, weight pressure has to get into the lead leg the hands/arms have to sync up with the upper body rotation to deliver the trail elbow in front of the trail hip then everything - lead hip turns and clear against the weight pressure through the lead leg and the upper body in posture, the left pec left shoulder rotates hard left - that what you've been seeing in the Pro's swings you've been looking at

Thanks Coach, something to try.

Can you clarify this bit though?

notice the hands handle move out on a plane arc that's around 45% to target line - but they move out & down - not just down

I'm struggling to see the hands move out?

 

[the_coach]

this is all the kinda stuff to mull over at home thinking about the swing motion - should folks be inclined to do so that is - and during technique training on the practice ground again if that fits with the way folks work - but not when on the course in play

however if you got the latest browser update software installed you should be able to be on the vids page on youtube hit the 'settings wheel' and slow the vid down to 0.25 viewing speed which lets you see better what happens from the top stopped backswing in that first move down

from around 39 secs in is best angle as shooting position moves to directly behind player pause here atop
then in slow-mo you can see the hands/handle move down but also out so the handpath is starting kinda on a diagonal so paused if 42 secs a line drawn on the shaft/handle angle straight on out of the butt end of the club would bisect the ball/target line extended out back of ball

and no for sure this is nothing to be thinking about during motion - but importantly it's this motion of the hand path as the swing moves into downswing that 'shallows out the shaft', the club, also puts the trail arm elbow in shape to be able to move on to arrive infront the trail hip - so it's a real decent concept to begin to understand
(also important to remember for the hips to move correctly in the downswing they have gotta to have turned properly in the backswing - sure many Tour pro's restrict the hips but for lesser mortals it's a deal better to turn into the trail hip socket on the ways to the top

- but not to be confused with the trail shoulder & the arms/hands just moving directly out forwards horizontally or even upwards & forwards, which is the not wanted 'out and over the top' swinging down steep & right to leftfield through impact

so a simple thought from the top to swing (obviously after weight into leadside at transition so proper sequence is taking place) the hands/handle on a path that points the butt end of the club at the ball/target line that's extended from the back of the ball - it's the concept the laser swing trainers work to
- so not right from the top the butt end points directly at the ball - but to bisect that imaginary target line that runs from target and through ball all the way out on behind it - this 'imaginary line' coming out of butt end pretty much traces the ball/target line all through the downswing
this 'line' out of the butt end of the club will reach a point where it does point at the ball then through on to target before release at impact

 

[the_coach]

maybes be able to see the downwards and slight outwards move of the hand path better here at around 4' 0" speaking to the direction the hands/handle take (bear in mind they following the sequence of the weight pressure into lead leg & lower body though)
if there was a line drawn over the top shaft position you'd see the shaft slightly drop behind that line and down as it shallows as a direct reaction to the lower body leading and the subsequent hand path from the top

pause most club golfers at their top shaft position draw a line over the shaft and the first moves down would place the shaft to move above the drawn line nearer the head

if you can get to the top of the swing looking in a mirror at the dtl view and get that hands slightly downwards outwards move you'll see the shaft both shallow out and fall behind some.

[video=youtube;uIdIRm5PQMM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIdIRm5PQMM[/video]

 

[woody69]

Thanks Coach, appreciate all of your help.