Time to break away from England Golf ?

[Dunesman]

Hello. I would like to ask readers if England Golf really represents your interests in golf, and if not, is it time for a new union of clubs ?

Coming from the WHS discussion, but more widely, it seems to me that the tail is wagging the dog when it comes to ordinary club golf.

WHS firstly. EG did not implement WHS as written by the R&A and USGA. And on this topic seem driven solely by a mission to increase registered playing golfers. Any inconvenience to the existing members who might have thought EG's mission was to represent them, is just collateral damage.

igolf. Clubs did not want, but were rolled over by EG who said they were doing it anyway. What ? Yes. EG driving with a passion to implement something clubs not only had no interest in developing, but positively feared.

'Respect'. Not criticising the essence of the scheme in itself, but what set EG on an implementation path to implement this in all clubs, right up to disassociating any clubs who do not compky with Respect accreditation. What? Yes. Your association is now running your club, not you running an association for your clubs.

What is going on here ? When did the poles flip ? No wonder WHS doesnt work for so many. It wasnt implemented for you in the first place. So, is it time for a new union of clubs, to, dare I say it, take back control ?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Who forms the new union

Who pays for it

What difference will it make

 

[clubchamp98]

Far to many golfers don’t know and don’t care.

It might be possible for clubs to break away and go back to the old system.
But dought very much this will happen.

 

[Voyager EMH]

Will golf clubs be revolting?

Going underground?

I think this is way off course.

 

[D-S]

What % of clubs would need to breakaway to make it viable? Quite a lot as members couldn’t play Opens or matches at non breakaway clubs as they wouldn’t have approved handicaps - there’s no way that the stakeholders would allow them any WHS accrediration.
Also what about the Counties (currently the shareholders in EG)? By definition they couldn’t support any breakaway organisation. Then County and representative golf?

 

[Bunkermagnet]

Umm....no.
This sounds like a Trumpism...I dont like the rules Im gonna change the game.

 

[RichA]

Hello. I would like to ask readers if England Golf really represents your interests in golf, and if not, is it time for a new union of clubs ?

Coming from the WHS discussion, but more widely, it seems to me that the tail is wagging the dog when it comes to ordinary club golf.

WHS firstly. EG did not implement WHS as written by the R&A and USGA. And on this topic seem driven solely by a mission to increase registered playing golfers. Any inconvenience to the existing members who might have thought EG's mission was to represent them, is just collateral damage.

igolf. Clubs did not want, but were rolled over by EG who said they were doing it anyway. What ? Yes. EG driving with a passion to implement something clubs not only had no interest in developing, but positively feared.

'Respect'. Not criticising the essence of the scheme in itself, but what set EG on an implementation path to implement this in all clubs, right up to disassociating any clubs who do not compky with Respect accreditation. What? Yes. Your association is now running your club, not you running an association for your clubs.

What is going on here ? When did the poles flip ? No wonder WHS doesnt work for so many. It wasnt implemented for you in the first place. So, is it time for a new union of clubs, to, dare I say it, take back control ?

Why don't you start a class action? We could all ask for our £10.50 back.

 

[3 jabber]

Not sure what your issues are? WHS is the same for everyone so not convinced anyone is gaining any advantage through it. iGolf is irrelevant, clubs have the freedom to not accept open entries from people with igolf handicaps if they so choose.
As for Respect, there is no getting away from that. It is part of the modern world, any new golf union would probably forced down that road anyway.

 

[IanM]

I think most club golfers just play golf and are not bothered by the issues you refer to.

Trump has nothing to do with it!

However, the recent election demonstrated there's a lesson to be learned about not engaging or even alienating your stakeholders!

 

[Golfnut1957]

What would you do if the new organisation didn't represent you in a manner of which you fully approved? Another one?

As said above, the vast majority of golfers are only interested in playing golf, as testified by the large number of golfers at my club who don't even bother with a handicap. Their main golfing concern is the weather.

 

[Dunesman]

Thanks all for the comments, and I guess its at least a discussion that club members and committees can look at.

Really, to have more of a club driven association from the grass roots up, rather than the top down model of EG which seems to have a strong arm method of whipping clubs into line on the EG agenda, with overhanging threat of excommunication.

EG may suit many.
Or maybe a hybrid model of igolf members who collectively play in a non affiliated club.
Or a fully new union of clubs governing their own affairs rather than being governed by a body not necessarily aligned with their goals.

 

[evemccc]

I think most club golfers just play golf and are not bothered by the issues you refer to.

Trump has nothing to do with it!

However, the recent election demonstrated there's a lesson to be learned about not engaging or even alienating your stakeholders!

To your last point..(Different sport notwithstanding, but the principle is the same) I’m not sure the ECB have heeded that lesson in their alienation of their core audience / ‘stakeholders’

 

[clubchamp98]

To your last point..(Different sport notwithstanding, but the principle is the same) I’m not sure the ECB have heeded that lesson in their alienation of their core audience / ‘stakeholders’

True but most sport now is dominated by TV schedules not the fans opinions.

Heard on TV this morning that the FA cup final might be in America.

 

[doublebogey7]

Thanks all for the comments, and I guess its at least a discussion that club members and committees can look at.

Really, to have more of a club driven association from the grass roots up, rather than the top down model of EG which seems to have a strong arm method of whipping clubs into line on the EG agenda, with overhanging threat of excommunication.

EG may suit many.
Or maybe a hybrid model of igolf members who collectively play in a non affiliated club.
Or a fully new union of clubs governing their own affairs rather than being governed by a body not necessarily aligned with their goals.

As I see it EG is already managed from the bottom up, the Counties are the share holders, clubs elect the county officials and members elect club officials so there is a clear link from golf club memebers up to the top senior management of the organisation. How would you see a new organisation improving on that.

 

[rulefan]

As I see it EG is already managed from the bottom up, the Counties are the share holders, clubs elect the county officials and members elect club officials so there is a clear link from golf club memebers up to the top senior management of the organisation. How would you see a new organisation improving on that.

Some years ago Counties made nominations for members of various EG committees (I was one such). Now I believe all committee members are employed staffers

 

[doublebogey7]

Some years ago Counties made nominations for members of various EG committees (I was one such). Now I believe all committee members are employed staffers

Not sure what you mean by ther committee as there is now a board of directors, eight of whom are elected, and 4 appointed.

 

[Dunesman]

As I see it EG is already managed from the bottom up, the Counties are the share holders, clubs elect the county officials and members elect club officials so there is a clear link from golf club memebers up to the top senior management of the organisation. How would you see a new organisation improving on that.

That might be the theory, but Jeremy Tomlinson came across badly in the NGC interview I thought. On a variety of issues, an attitude of we must force clubs to do what EG wants, not EG as a servant for what the clubs themselves want. A touch of a self serving bureaucracy. On igolf, positively self congratulating on implementing it, and that clubs were a problem that had to be solved, and whose resistance had to be beaten. That is not bottom up governance.

 

[doublebogey7]

That might be the theory, but Jeremy Tomlinson came across badly in the NGC interview I thought. On a variety of issues, an attitude of we must force clubs to do what EG wants, not EG as a servant for what the clubs themselves want. A touch of a self serving bureaucracy. On igolf, positively self congratulating on implementing it, and that clubs were a problem that had to be solved, and whose resistance had to be beaten. That is not bottom up governance.

That is exectly how efficient effective organisations the world over work. In my experience clubs are the same, an elected board who are allowed to get on with managing without constant interefence from members are way more effective than one where the members have a say on everything. That's not to say I like everything EG do, of course not if though I felt strongly enough I would be actively campaigning through the current structures to make the changes I thought were neccesary. I would not be on social media calling for a completly new organisation that could only have a detrimenetal effect on club golf for at least the next 20 years.

I'll ask again how do you see a new governence structure working.

 

[jim8flog]

At the end of the day the cost of a years subs is less than the cost of 3 quality golf balls - who is really going to care.

Somebody has to rule the roost so what difference will a new body really make, how many rules will remain exactly the same when it is realised that they work and there really is no good alternative.

 

[Captainron]

Have England Golf and the Palm Jumeriah formed an alliance yet....?