Tiger in another car crash

[wjemather]

The drug testing one is a bit off an anomaly, because it’s not illegal anywhere to take testosterone, it’s not even illegal to own it or buy it. The legality comes from selling it only when not prescribed, it’s on odd topic as it something that came up through work recently.

As for Tiger prior to 2008 it also wasn’t illegal or banned as a substance for golfers to take so even if he had take it and tested positive for it he wouldn’t have broke any laws or golfing rules with regards to anti doping. So it’s kind of an irrelevant argument when trying to overshadow his achievements. Whether people want to agree with that morally or not doesn’t matter unfortunately it’s a fact.

It’s also still not against the rules to take Steroids in golf as long as you can provide medical evidence of why your taking, why it’s being prescribed, that it’s registered with WADA and the tour provide a TUE exemption for its required medical use. I’d argue they can probably find a case for Woods to be allowed TRT based on muscle wastage around his multiple back surgeries.

So is it questionable? Absolutely it is,
Is it permissible in the sport as long as he follows the PGAT TUE guidelines and WADA advise? Yes it is

It’s a very grey area!

As above only PED abusing proven he’s got PEDs in his system after 2008 laws were brought in. Before that irrelevant because it wasn’t banned, also if it’s in accordance with the above guidelines again it’s permissible. Let’s not allow facts to get in the way of judgement though

PEDs were never acceptable (it's incredible that you would imply otherwise). The tour eventually bowed to pressure and implemented their policy in 2008. Before then, the company line was essentially that "we don't have a problem (golfers don't cheat by using drugs) so we don't need any testing" but it was also clear that they would take strong action if anyone was found to be using them.
So yeah, let's not let facts get in the way.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

PEDs were never acceptable (it's incredible that you would imply otherwise). The tour eventually bowed to pressure and implemented their policy in 2008. Before then, the company line was essentially that "golfers don't cheat by using drugs so we don't need any testing".
So yeah, let's not let facts get in the way.

Didn’t say they were acceptable, I’ve also not implied they are or should be. I said they can’t do anything about it without guidelines for testing backed by WADA or without official legislation detailing the named substances. Like I said it’s a grey area and one that’s easy if he was taking them he could flaunt and not be punished for. Which is why Player and others were so vocal about the requirement to bring in testing and make legislation that meant bans could be put in place for those caught but could t be retroactively invoked for any use prior to 2008.

It’s also factually incorrect to state they’re not acceptable when they are under guidance from WADA, PGAT TUE and medically prescribed to fit within those guidelines. But again don’t let actual facts get in the way.

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

But, playing devil’s advocate, in theory pre 2008, he and others (who knows) could of been using performance enhancing drugs and gaining and advantage over the others in the field, just because there was no testing or bans in place doesn’t mean it was OK.

Absolutely not that doesn’t mean it’s ok at all. Which is why there was such a big thing about it a rightly so.

Testing should’ve been brought way further back than 2008 but as a sport we’re often slow on the uptake as we still believe in the integrity of people calling foul on themselves. But when that much moneys at stake someone will always try and gain advantage whether fairly or not and that’s where the sport got it wrong in taking so long.

That’s where it is ironic that all but one of his majors came pre testing and ban and is certainly something that could be questioned. Unfortunately doesn’t mean anything can be done about it now despite what some posters will shout.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

He was banned, served a prison sentence, would I trust him near drink? No absolutely not.

Just like Tiger, one of the best Golfers ever, would I get in a car with him or trust him around women? No absolutely not.

Did you support Suarez?

We can play whatsaboutery all day.

What about the prison sentence he got for headbutting a player ?

You are making judgements about woods on the golf course based on his personal life with ladies

So people can make the distinction between their sporting life and personal life

 

[PaulMdj]

Absolutely not that doesn’t mean it’s ok at all. Which is why there was such a big thing about it a rightly so.

Testing should’ve been brought way further back than 2008 but as a sport we’re often slow on the uptake as we still believe in the integrity of people calling foul on themselves. But when that much moneys at stake someone will always try and gain advantage whether fairly or not and that’s where the sport got it wrong in taking so long.

That’s where it is ironic that all but one of his majors came pre testing and ban and is certainly something that could be questioned. Unfortunately doesn’t mean anything can be done about it now despite what some posters will shout.

But if, and it’s a massive if, if they helped him make him who he is, then surely he’d be seen differently.

 

[Arthur Wedge]

It really doesn't take much searching to find countless stories about PED use (steroids & HGH in particular) throughout Woods' career.

It's bizarre that there are people who are absolutely aware of this confidently claiming that Woods is completely untainted on the golf course. Perhaps they don't consider PED abuse as cheating, or something that affects sporting integrity - Woods certainly didn't appear to when asked about it earlier in his career.

Has Woods ever tested positive for PeDs whilst playing golf ?

 

[PaulMdj]

What about the prison sentence he got for headbutting a player ?

You are making judgements about woods on the golf course based on his personal life with ladies

So people can make the distinction between their sporting life and personal life

Did you not read my post, here I’ll help.

Read the first 7 words of the post you replied to.

We are not talking about a normal person here, he’s possibly the greatest golfer that ever lived, his prowess on the golf course gave him rewards for his personal life and he’s wasted them.
He lacks honesty and integrity imo, just like I look at any normal bloke who cheated on his wife, just because they could.

Any answer on Suarez?

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

But if, and it’s a massive if, if they helped him make him who he is, then surely he’d be seen differently.

I don’t think there’s even a BUT there. If it was proven he had taken them and tested positive then there no doubt he and his legacy would be seen differently and rightly so.

In addition incase the previous poster comments about my claims of it being accepted. It’s not and never has been morally accepted, but it can’t be deemed as illegal if a testing program and legislation detailing it doesn’t exist. So anything prior to when testing came in therefore whilst morally wrong and not in keeping with spirit of the game unfortunately is irrelevant and can’t be proven or otherwise. The USPGA even said as much when they brought in testing that there had been oversight from them and anything prior to that date is been and gone but anything post that will be taken into account and dealt with in accordance with their newly instated guidelines and laws.

Has Woods ever tested positive for PeDs whilst playing golf ?

And this is the crux of it. He has never tested positive therefore can’t ever be labelled as a drugs cheated or having gained advantage despite what some may claim!

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Did you not read my post, here I’ll help.

Read the first 7 words of the post you replied to.

We are not talking about a normal person here, he’s possibly the greatest golfer that ever lived, his prowess on the golf course gave him rewards for his personal life and he’s wasted them.
He lacks honesty and integrity imo, just like I look at any normal bloke who cheated on his wife, just because they could.

Any answer on Suarez?

“Morals of an alley cat” was what you said for people who supported those on the sport field who had issues off the field

Suarez was a disgraceful person with his biting but he was supported as a player

Faldo cheated on his wife , Monty did , Westwood did -is that the same judgement to them on the golf course

There is always the split between what someone does on the sporting arena compared to what someone does in their private life - there are many people who have had affairs with ladies or men but that doesn’t mean they have integrity issues when playing sport

 

[PaulMdj]

“Morals of an alley cat” was what you said for people who supported those on the sport field who had issues off the field

Suarez was a disgraceful person with his biting but he was supported as a player

Faldo cheated on his wife , Monty did , Westwood did -is that the same judgement to them on the golf course

There is always the split between what someone does on the sporting arena compared to what someone does in their private life - there are many people who have had affairs with ladies or men but that doesn’t mean they have integrity issues when playing sport

You are quoting out of context:

You said :

If he wants to have an affair with loads of females etc that’s his choice and nothing illegal about that

My Answer:
Then I’d suggest those people, just like him, have the morals of an alley cat.

It was stated he had affairs with between 100-150 women, just how many diseases is he risking giving to his then wife and the other women, it says to me he has absolutely no morals and anyone thinking sleeping with that many women and risking their loved ones health absolutely has the morals of alley cat, or do you think that’s him just being “a lad”

As for the other Golfers you mention, I have no idea of the state of their relationships and if their partner cheated first or they had the morals of an alley cat, but I have also lost respect for them, if that’s OK.

Suarez and Ferguson misbehaved on the pitch not really a good analogy you introduced to support your point imo.

Have a good evening, I’m out.

 

[Pin-seeker]

Jeez,slow day guys?

 

[clubchamp98]

I don’t think DUI has anything to do with Tiger being a golfer.

He’s just a shocking driver.

But his fame has kept him out of jail in the past imho.
This time might be different but I dought it Money talks!

 

[Lucifer MorningStar]

Jeez,slow day guys?

Nothing to do and no one to annoy at work might as well do it here

 

[wjemather]

Has Woods ever tested positive for PeDs whilst playing golf ?

Has there ever been the suggestion that he has taken PEDs? (that's without any TUE, for the pedant).
The answer is yes, plenty.

...whilst he has played there hasn’t been anything to suggest he has cheated -

Has there ever been any suggestion of him cheating at golf ?

You were trying to paint him as unquestionably clean on the course, and that simply isn't true.
And worse, you knew that very well when you posted it (at least twice).

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Has there ever been the suggestion that he has taken PEDs? (that's without any TUE, for the pedant).
The answer is yes, plenty.

So when was he found to be using PEDs to cheat

 

[Arthur Wedge]

You are quoting out of context:

You said :


My Answer:
Then I’d suggest those people, just like him, have the morals of an alley cat.

It was stated he had affairs with between 100-150 women, just how many diseases is he risking giving to his then wife and the other women, it says to me he has absolutely no morals and anyone thinking sleeping with that many women and risking their loved ones health absolutely has the morals of alley cat, or do you think that’s him just being “a lad”

As for the other Golfers you mention, I have no idea of the state of their relationships and if their partner cheated first or they had the morals of an alley cat, but I have also lost respect for them, if that’s OK.

Suarez and Ferguson misbehaved on the pitch not really a good analogy you introduced to support your point imo.

Have a good evening, I’m out.

Come on at least put the full post you replied too

People will cheer their sporting achievements- because they will be ok to seperate what he does on the course

surely the line is what’s legal or not

If he wants to have an affair with loads of females etc that’s his choice and nothing illegal about that

So you don’t mean those that cheer on peoples sporting achievements and are ok to seperate what he does on and off the golf course

 

[wjemather]

So when was he found to be using PEDs to cheat

Did someone say he was?

 

[Arthur Wedge]

Did someone say he was?

Ah just stories then

 

[IanM]

No Laying Up guys really laid into him on their latest output. A mix of anger and sadness.

Hopefully he'll get the help he needs, but I suspect he doesn't take advice well.

 

[Lord Tyrion]

I have no idea if Tiger was taking PED in the past but stating he never failed a test when he largely wasn't being tested makes it meaningless. The East Germans in the 70's didn't fail any tests, Flo Jo didn't fail a test. Tiger didn't fail a test the other day. He simply didn't take one.