Baldyeagle
Assistant Pro
General opinions on the Teachers/Public Sector strike planned for Thursday?
Thursday Strike
- Thread starter Baldyeagle
- Start date
Jabba
Challenge Tour Pro
The only part that concerns me is that they've told me I must send my kids into school even though they admit there will be no lessons for them. I am then supposed to write to my MP and education authority complaining about the situation. Balls to that, I'm not allowing my kids to be used in someone elses fight, nor am I going to take up arms on the teachers behalf.
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
What are they striking about? Money?
If so, I would be inclined to agree. Teachers have to put up with ALOT of crap from kids at schools and I friends who are teachers and some of the stuff they tell me is just awful.
This is obviously not a well informed opinion though, as I don't have the full story
If so, I would be inclined to agree. Teachers have to put up with ALOT of crap from kids at schools and I friends who are teachers and some of the stuff they tell me is just awful.
This is obviously not a well informed opinion though, as I don't have the full story
Gazp
Assistant Pro
It's mainly about pensions, they are being asked to contribute more & work longer
No payrise for 2 years etc for the civil servants, god love them, imagine having a job where the main requirements were English and Maths. All technical jobs these days are outsources to private firms so really they are mostly clerical positions as such. Everyone else has to tighten their belts, why not the silly service?
CallawayKid
Q-School Graduate
Well I guess it'll be hard to get a tee time tomorrow then!
CK
CK
Fyldewhite
Tour Winner
I can just see the stereotypical cliches and comments comming but for 30 years civil servants have received below inflation and below private sector equivalent pay increases on the proviso that their generous pensions makes up for it.
It does and has always been accepted as part of the overall deal but now the rug is being pulled from under them by the changes being enforced by the government. That's not to mention the thousands of job cuts and increased workload, increased turnaround and poorer service etc etc. When it takes twice as long to get anything sorted out no doubt everyone will be blaming the "lazy, tea drinking" low grade workers when the real waste in the civil service is in the high management grades.
They are an easy target and I support their stance 100%. The phrase "sold down the river" doesn't come close.
It does and has always been accepted as part of the overall deal but now the rug is being pulled from under them by the changes being enforced by the government. That's not to mention the thousands of job cuts and increased workload, increased turnaround and poorer service etc etc. When it takes twice as long to get anything sorted out no doubt everyone will be blaming the "lazy, tea drinking" low grade workers when the real waste in the civil service is in the high management grades.
They are an easy target and I support their stance 100%. The phrase "sold down the river" doesn't come close.
richart
Major Champion
This is obviously not a well informed opinion though, as I don't have the full story
Why don't you put that in your signature, to save typing it each time ?
forefortheday
Tour Rookie
This.
Aztecs27
Money List Winner
This is obviously not a well informed opinion though, as I don't have the full story
Why don't you put that in your signature, to save typing it each time ?
chrisd
Major Champion
To be fair, I believe the public sector workers are just being used by grossly overpaid union officials who need to arrange a few strikes to make it look as though they are doing a real job
I have run my own business for 20 years and my pension that I have paid into for that time is worth virtually zilch. As a result of recession, I am earning about 60% of the pay I took some years back (and it wasn't great then)
I can't take time off as we are cut to the bone on staff levels and regularly work in excess of 50 hours per week.
I am lucky to still be working though as many have lost their jobs!
Then there's the public sector !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Two words - gravy train!!
Chris
I have run my own business for 20 years and my pension that I have paid into for that time is worth virtually zilch. As a result of recession, I am earning about 60% of the pay I took some years back (and it wasn't great then)
I can't take time off as we are cut to the bone on staff levels and regularly work in excess of 50 hours per week.
I am lucky to still be working though as many have lost their jobs!
Then there's the public sector !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Two words - gravy train!!
Chris
DCB
Well-known member
Firstly, I'm in Scotland, so this isn't our fight at the moment.
Been on both public and private sectors in my working life, back in the public sector at the moment. Both have pluses and both have minuses.
I'm not in a cushy final salary pension scheme, they seemed to close to new members many years ago. Those final salary schemes are all stuffed, mainly due to the vast numbers of members who were allowed early retirement by their public sector employers and they raced out the door with enhanced pension provision. End result is a deficit 20 years down the line. It doesn't take a actuary to work that one out !
As for the lack of annual pay increases. That hit the private sector as well... in fact in some cases it was take a drop or there's the door.
When I started work I was given the dream of retiring aat either 55 or 60. Neither will happen now, tough titty, I've just got to get on with it. If I want a decent pension, I need to increase my contributions, the employer only has to contribute a max % so I need to stump up the rest. Times are so different now and will continue to get harder.
Been on both public and private sectors in my working life, back in the public sector at the moment. Both have pluses and both have minuses.
I'm not in a cushy final salary pension scheme, they seemed to close to new members many years ago. Those final salary schemes are all stuffed, mainly due to the vast numbers of members who were allowed early retirement by their public sector employers and they raced out the door with enhanced pension provision. End result is a deficit 20 years down the line. It doesn't take a actuary to work that one out !
As for the lack of annual pay increases. That hit the private sector as well... in fact in some cases it was take a drop or there's the door.
When I started work I was given the dream of retiring aat either 55 or 60. Neither will happen now, tough titty, I've just got to get on with it. If I want a decent pension, I need to increase my contributions, the employer only has to contribute a max % so I need to stump up the rest. Times are so different now and will continue to get harder.
welshjim22
Head Pro
For those that are interested i work in the public sector and will be striking tomorrow. Generally for people like me on the oldest scheme with 10yrs service my contributions will increase by about £85 a month i will no longer have 29 yrs till retirment but at least 37yrs and i will get a smaller pension in the end. So pay alot more now, work longer and therefore more contributions and then get alot less.
My last pension statement showed a potential pension of 13,000 a year so can't wait to see what that will be cut by with this new package. Estimates so far of at least 20% have been mentioned. 63% of staff earn less than £25,000 a year and bearing in mind i earn about £33000 and currently only get a pension of £13,000 this doesn't bode well for the majority of staff earning less than me.
Sadly the government and media have portrayed staff badly talking about huge pensions and how we will inconvenience the public. I would argue the government are doing this as we have no other means of fighting this package, they have other options available. The government could actually negotiate which lets be clear they are not. Sitting down and talking when you aren't prepared to compromise or consider the other sides arguments is not negotiating.
For those interested below is a link to the PCS website where it describes some of the myths. For example 100,000 civil servants receive pensions of £2000 or less a year.
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/facts-about-civil-and-public-services/index.cfm#3
Of course none of this matters as the governments own report said pensions are affordable and will be even more so without these changes in the future.
My last pension statement showed a potential pension of 13,000 a year so can't wait to see what that will be cut by with this new package. Estimates so far of at least 20% have been mentioned. 63% of staff earn less than £25,000 a year and bearing in mind i earn about £33000 and currently only get a pension of £13,000 this doesn't bode well for the majority of staff earning less than me.
Sadly the government and media have portrayed staff badly talking about huge pensions and how we will inconvenience the public. I would argue the government are doing this as we have no other means of fighting this package, they have other options available. The government could actually negotiate which lets be clear they are not. Sitting down and talking when you aren't prepared to compromise or consider the other sides arguments is not negotiating.
For those interested below is a link to the PCS website where it describes some of the myths. For example 100,000 civil servants receive pensions of £2000 or less a year.
http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/news_and_events/facts-about-civil-and-public-services/index.cfm#3
Of course none of this matters as the governments own report said pensions are affordable and will be even more so without these changes in the future.
Baldyeagle
Assistant Pro
Interesting balance of opinions. I agree that 'we're all in this together' (except of course for the politicians, bankers & senior managers) but I do think that there is a 'divide and rule' feel to the government's current campaign(with the help of the right-wing media) to set the private and public sectors at each other's throats (perhaps to divert hostility away from themselves?)
My wife's a teacher and although she didn't become one because of the pension, it certainly helped to balance out the relatively low pay. (Even now, after 17 years her hourly take-home is about £6.91 when you take into account teaching/prep/admin/evening work etc.)
She accepts the pay freeze because although it will hit lower earners hardest, it is a general approach.
How would you feel though if you'd accepted low pay for demanding work only to find that, under 4 years from retirement, you're told "sorry - another 4 years after that and a lot less pension".
It's a bit like running a marathon and just when you get in sight of the finish, someone adds another 4 miles to the race and takes away the prize.
My wife's a teacher and although she didn't become one because of the pension, it certainly helped to balance out the relatively low pay. (Even now, after 17 years her hourly take-home is about £6.91 when you take into account teaching/prep/admin/evening work etc.)
She accepts the pay freeze because although it will hit lower earners hardest, it is a general approach.
How would you feel though if you'd accepted low pay for demanding work only to find that, under 4 years from retirement, you're told "sorry - another 4 years after that and a lot less pension".
It's a bit like running a marathon and just when you get in sight of the finish, someone adds another 4 miles to the race and takes away the prize.
Shaunmg
Head Pro
I think things will get worse. This is just the first round of public sector strikes. Not all public sector workers are pen pushers. Ask any police, fireman, nurse, dinner lady or refuse collector. They are all taking the brunt of spending cuts, which include wages freeze, job losses and pension cuts.
I have every sympathy with them; they are paying the price for a situation not of their making. When people enter into a contract it should either be honoured or amended by agreement of both parties. How many times to you hear it said “you knew what the job involved when you took it, so don’t whinge when you have to do it†Well the same should apply to both sides, honour your contract.
I know times are difficult, in my opinion a fair compromise would be for new pension requirement to affect new employees only. Some private sector companies did just this. They changed pensions for new employees and honoured the contract of existing
I know how hard it is to strike, I was a miner for 22 years and lived through the 1984 strike with a young family and still lost my job at the end of it. I have sympathy with strikers and learned to ignore the one sided press who write of all strikers as the lowest of the low and drum up public hostility with their exaggerated claims of union leaders pay. I recall taking great exception to the patronising “Lions lead by donkeys†speech of Eric Hammond during the 84 strike. I didn’t need Arthur Scargill to tell me I needed to fight for my job. I’m sure the teachers feel the same way when the red herring of union leaders pay is thrown up by the likes of the Daily Mail.
To any strikers reading this, don’t be despondent when you read the grossly biased gutter press, some of us can see through them, we’re not all against you
I have every sympathy with them; they are paying the price for a situation not of their making. When people enter into a contract it should either be honoured or amended by agreement of both parties. How many times to you hear it said “you knew what the job involved when you took it, so don’t whinge when you have to do it†Well the same should apply to both sides, honour your contract.
I know times are difficult, in my opinion a fair compromise would be for new pension requirement to affect new employees only. Some private sector companies did just this. They changed pensions for new employees and honoured the contract of existing
I know how hard it is to strike, I was a miner for 22 years and lived through the 1984 strike with a young family and still lost my job at the end of it. I have sympathy with strikers and learned to ignore the one sided press who write of all strikers as the lowest of the low and drum up public hostility with their exaggerated claims of union leaders pay. I recall taking great exception to the patronising “Lions lead by donkeys†speech of Eric Hammond during the 84 strike. I didn’t need Arthur Scargill to tell me I needed to fight for my job. I’m sure the teachers feel the same way when the red herring of union leaders pay is thrown up by the likes of the Daily Mail.
To any strikers reading this, don’t be despondent when you read the grossly biased gutter press, some of us can see through them, we’re not all against you
NWJocko
Tour Winner
Interesting debate and soem good responses.
I support anyone who is trying to protect their lot in life.
However, one thing that's annoyed me as part of this is the teachers (and other public sector) blaming "the bankers", I see another post here has done the same.
I work for a bank but am nothing to do with investing etc and therefore am not hugely well paid and don't get stupid bonuses and, to be honest with differences in pension structure etc I have suffered as much as the next man from the financial fallout.
I sympathise with them however what they fail to see is I came very close to losing my job numerous times and also have gone through similar pension "restructures" such that I pay much, much more into my own pot with diminishing returns.
As I've said, I really do understand their point of view, the problem is they think everyone in the private sector has a cushty deal which is far, far from the truth. The difference is if I/we were to strike we'd all be out on our ear as we can't hold the government by the short and curlies!
I support anyone who is trying to protect their lot in life.
However, one thing that's annoyed me as part of this is the teachers (and other public sector) blaming "the bankers", I see another post here has done the same.
I work for a bank but am nothing to do with investing etc and therefore am not hugely well paid and don't get stupid bonuses and, to be honest with differences in pension structure etc I have suffered as much as the next man from the financial fallout.
I sympathise with them however what they fail to see is I came very close to losing my job numerous times and also have gone through similar pension "restructures" such that I pay much, much more into my own pot with diminishing returns.
As I've said, I really do understand their point of view, the problem is they think everyone in the private sector has a cushty deal which is far, far from the truth. The difference is if I/we were to strike we'd all be out on our ear as we can't hold the government by the short and curlies!
Crazyface
Tour Winner
Hmmm. No pay rises, pensions all up the swannee, got to work longer before you get anything your due. Welcome to the real world. Oh and how many weeks holiday do you get ,and "inset" days! Get away with you..
StuartD
Tour Rookie
Garbage.
Yes the fat cats at the top end may have had big rises but for the average person this has not been the case.
IF i have had a pay rise in the last 10 years, it has not been above 2.5%. During this time my pension contributions have gone up 5 times and i still no longer have a final salary pension.
I left Uni on the same day as a pal (with same qualification) who later decided to be a teacher and he now has a far bigger salary than myself.
Its about time all civil servant workers woke up and see what is really happening in the outside world and realise that what they are now going through has happened to millions of other people.
Get back to work
19thagain
Head Pro
Cards on the table .. self employed for the last 25 years and things are very, very, financially tight in comparison to past income ..still working long after my planned pension age .. my problem, my decision.
Teachers, in my opinion, are one of the main BRICKS in our childrens growth. They can encourage results from other peoples children that leave the parents amazed.
They are totally underpaid, over stressed and the carrot is indeed the pension.
NEW GOVERNMENT IN TOWN!!
We have to change NOW, they say. Why? Affordability! Untrue! The cost graph shows a decline in costs from the 2010/2011 year onwards if the current benefits are retained. Why the need for lies? We are all in it together they say .. yes if we are all millionaires like Clegg and Cameron.
The answer is simple - an honorable retention of the contract agreed by the teachers and government and an amendment to conditions for all future employees on a less generous basis BUT new entrants will then dictate better salaries if pensions are less, and the government knowing that this is a problem for the future, now decide to hammer existing employees who are so weak they will not bite back .. will they?
This can only be resolved by talking WITH the teachers and not AT them.
A few less bombs dropped in far away places, will fund any concerns at No 11.
Teachers, in my opinion, are one of the main BRICKS in our childrens growth. They can encourage results from other peoples children that leave the parents amazed.
They are totally underpaid, over stressed and the carrot is indeed the pension.
NEW GOVERNMENT IN TOWN!!
We have to change NOW, they say. Why? Affordability! Untrue! The cost graph shows a decline in costs from the 2010/2011 year onwards if the current benefits are retained. Why the need for lies? We are all in it together they say .. yes if we are all millionaires like Clegg and Cameron.
The answer is simple - an honorable retention of the contract agreed by the teachers and government and an amendment to conditions for all future employees on a less generous basis BUT new entrants will then dictate better salaries if pensions are less, and the government knowing that this is a problem for the future, now decide to hammer existing employees who are so weak they will not bite back .. will they?
This can only be resolved by talking WITH the teachers and not AT them.
A few less bombs dropped in far away places, will fund any concerns at No 11.
drawboy
Tour Winner
I say good luck to all taking industrial action, as for teachers 1 day will not ruin anyones education in way way shape or form, so I've no problem there. I understand that self employed workers have to make their own provisions but one of the benifits of empolyment is a pension. Cameron and co are alright they will not need theirs they are already wealthy people, an ex Primeminister gets an automatic £100000 per year pension anyway. There are better ways of cutting deficiets without costing working people their measley pensions. Unfortunately it will be all to no avail, you can strike to high heaven and it will not change the governments course, of course the oppostion will have a field day but if they get in power at the next election they will not reverse any policies made by the Con-lib alliance.I can see no alternate way of showing your disagreement with government policy when it is not an election year.
