Thursday Strike

[Snelly]

No they should not strike. It is not the answer.

If a teacher wants to earn more then they should strive to be the best in their profession and go and work at a private school where the pay is better. Or alternatively, set up as a private tutor and supplement income with a second revenue stream from teaching out of normal hours. Doesn't have to be too onerous - a couple of hours two nights a week would make a big difference. We pay our kids tutor £25 an hour so it could really boost income if you are prepared to work harder. Register the business, get a good accountant and there will be tax benefits to be taken advantage of too. Or is that for most teachers, that level of graft is too much like a proper week's work?
Interestingly, I know of several private tutors and all work at fee-paying private schools. I don't know any who come from the state school system.

Still, much easier to complain about the Tories and sod off to the shops for a cup of fairtrade coffee on a bonus day off eh? Put your feet up, read the Guardian, treat yourself to a new pair of tofu-free sandals?

I agree with Mrs T when she said, "the trouble with socialists is that in the end, they always run out of other people's money to spend!"

 

[Mungoscorner]

Nice to see some people understand what this is all about.Myself and my wife work in the public sector,so this is our argument as well as the teachers.
In the last 16 months,i have lost £4000 a year in earnings thanks to single status and skill grading,i will not be given a pay rise for the next 2 years,and now i'm being told i'll have to virtually double my pension contributions,and work longer,to recieve what i thought would be a decent pension when i retire.
Thanks very much Mr Cameron,yet again you and your party,and your idiotic alliance have screwed the working man.As is always the case with the Conservatives,rob the poor to give tax breaks and perks to the rich.

 

[forefortheday]

No they should not strike. It is not the answer.

If a teacher wants to earn more then they should strive to be the best in their profession and go and work at a private school where the pay is better. Or alternatively, set up as a private tutor and supplement income with a second revenue stream from teaching out of normal hours. Doesn't have to be too onerous - a couple of hours two nights a week would make a big difference. We pay our kids tutor £25 an hour so it could really boost income if you are prepared to work harder. Register the business, get a good accountant and there will be tax benefits to be taken advantage of too. Or is that for most teachers, that level of graft is too much like a proper week's work?
Interestingly, I know of several private tutors and all work at fee-paying private schools. I don't know any who come from the state school system.

Still, much easier to complain about the Tories and sod off to the shops for a cup of fairtrade coffee on a bonus day off eh? Put your feet up, read the Guardian, treat yourself to a new pair of tofu-free sandals?

I agree with Mrs T when she said, "the trouble with socialists is that in the end, they always run out of other people's money to spend!"

Nice to see a whole host of good old cliches bundled together there!

Any chance of a reasoned argument as to why it's wrong instead of some pointless observations about a small group of people you happen to know and some lazy Daily Mail style badging of teachers?

 

[Mungoscorner]

No they should not strike. It is not the answer.

If a teacher wants to earn more then they should strive to be the best in their profession and go and work at a private school where the pay is better. Or alternatively, set up as a private tutor and supplement income with a second revenue stream from teaching out of normal hours. Doesn't have to be too onerous - a couple of hours two nights a week would make a big difference. We pay our kids tutor £25 an hour so it could really boost income if you are prepared to work harder. Register the business, get a good accountant and there will be tax benefits to be taken advantage of too. Or is that for most teachers, that level of graft is too much like a proper week's work?
Interestingly, I know of several private tutors and all work at fee-paying private schools. I don't know any who come from the state school system.

Still, much easier to complain about the Tories and sod off to the shops for a cup of fairtrade coffee on a bonus day off eh? Put your feet up, read the Guardian, treat yourself to a new pair of tofu-free sandals?

I agree with Mrs T when she said, "the trouble with socialists is that in the end, they always run out of other people's money to spend!"

Is that you David ?

 

[Snelly]

It doesn't matter what you think of my post really and no, there's no chance of me entering into a long discussion on the politics of public finance. I am too busy working hard in the private sector to be able to afford the time, and subject to me having the inclination - which I don't. You will just have to put up with my tired collection of cliches, submitted in the Daily Mail style as you so eruditely put it.

And in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter if this strike happens or not - it will just inconvenience us all at a local level. Pity anyone who had a flight or ferry booked for example...

It won't change the fact that consecutive governments have given future commitments to public sector workers on pension increases in lieu of salary increases. Now those promises are being broken through neccessity as the money simply isn't there. This combined with the financial suicide of the Brown and Blair years, means we are broke. Spending has got to come down. Simple as that.

 

[Mattyboy]

Agree with Snelly - Final Salary pensions cost too much - period.

We have all sufferred in one way or another with reductions in salaries, property values etc.

Those effected should look to use their contingency plan. You do have one dont you? You know, that plan you carefully thought up during the good times as they were bound to come to an end, whatever line of work/employement you are in.

I am busy starting off my private enterprise. It wont make massive amounts but should supplement my main income somewhat.

Matt

 

[MoonPig]

I work in education and what really annoys me is the insistance that the public sector move towards the private sector and that the gap is narrowed. Now i know i am using examples from a small group of friends who work in the private sector but i would love to follow suit in my job. What i would see as the benefits to me would be:

1) Bonus pay for hitting targets
(That would be lovely as we don`t even get a thanks let alone a pay bonus)
2) Expenses for buying equipment to aid our job when working from home such as printer cartridges, petrol expenses, health schemes, etc..
(Lovely, that would ease the financial burden)
3) Less holidays
(Not a problem as it would mean being able to choose my holiday times and therefore accessing cheaper holiday deals as oppose to paying summer full price.
(Again more money in my pocket)
4) Overtime pay
(I would say on average that to do my job to a good standard i work approximately 15 hours etc a week unpaid)

Offset this cost to tax payers money and many people might change their viewpoint

On the pension front, teachers don`t have a problem with the change in pensions IF it was implemented for new starters into the career therefore they knew what the conditions were and would be able to make a choice.

 

[welshjim22]

Interesting comments although i would like to stress as a civil servant i took the job based on job security and a good pension. Neither of which exist anymore.The pay isn't great for the vast majority i consider myself extremely lucky that i have got promoted to a point i earn over £30k, 63% of staff earn less than £25k, a year sadly i also know with 29-37 left till retirement it is highly unlikely i will get promoted again.

Other employers have forced other changes through but does that mean that we or any other group of employees should roll over in the future. It is by standing up and putting our money where are mouths are that we can try and get a negotiated compromise. To just accept it will encourage more changes in the future.

 

[Doc]

I'm just hoping I die before I have to live out my old age in abject poverty.

 

[Evesdad]

I can see both sides, my wife being a teacher and myself in private sector. I agree that pensions should be changed to new starters only and not to current employees. Flip side I didn't get a pay rise in the last 4 years, I only get 4 weeks holiday I work just as long if not more hours(50-60) and I cang do them at home! And she still earns £6k a year more!

Yes she has to deal with verbal abuse, chairs tables thrown and expected to get on with it! Yes our children are th most important things in life and one day lost education may save their future education.

 

[Yerman]

I cannot agree with this strike, the people elected this Government and at the next election if they don't like what they've done they can elect someone else but to obstruct them in what they've been elected to do is anti-democratic.
The world doesn't owe us a living, who wants to be Greece.

 

[colint]

The idea that public sector workers receive lower salaries than private sector is complete and utter tosh. The Sunday Times did a survey in 2010 which revealed that public sector pay is, on average, 7% HIGHER than in the private sector. Private sector workers have been receiving pay cuts in recent years, never mind low pay rises, just to keep their jobs. The idea that the pension scheme is a compensation for the low pay may have been true 20 years ago, but it's completely irrelevant now.

The often trotted out point about some of the pensions being low ie sub £2k is also irrelevant. There was some £200k a year union official bleating on about how some of the staff effected were cleaners etc and now would have to work longer before getting their pension and pay more for it. My mother was a cleaner in the private sector, guess what pension she got when she retired ?

The schemes as they stand cannot be afforded. The only way to continue to pay these outrageousley generous pensions is by taking tax money from other areas. So what shall we have ? Public sector workers with nice pensions but less hospital beds ? How about everyone in the private sector continues to pay more tax and work longer so the public sector workers can retire early ?

Public sector workers receive significantly better holidays, maternity pay and sick pay.

If it's so bad in the public sector, then leave. Come over to the private sector and see how long you last in the real world.

 

[MoonPig]

The idea that public sector workers receive lower salaries than private sector is complete and utter tosh. The Sunday Times did a survey in 2010 which revealed that public sector pay is, on average, 7% HIGHER than in the private sector. Private sector workers have been receiving pay cuts in recent years, never mind low pay rises, just to keep their jobs. The idea that the pension scheme is a compensation for the low pay may have been true 20 years ago, but it's completely irrelevant now.


The often trotted out point about some of the pensions being low ie sub £2k is also irrelevant. There was some £200k a year union official bleating on about how some of the staff effected were cleaners etc and now would have to work longer before getting their pension and pay more for it. My mother was a cleaner in the private sector, guess what pension she got when she retired ?

The schemes as they stand cannot be afforded. The only way to continue to pay these outrageousley generous pensions is by taking tax money from other areas. So what shall we have ? Public sector workers with nice pensions but less hospital beds ? How about everyone in the private sector continues to pay more tax and work longer so the public sector workers can retire early ?

Public sector workers receive significantly better holidays, maternity pay and sick pay.

If it's so bad in the public sector, then leave. Come over to the private sector and see how long you last in the real world.

Out of interest if the public sector is the promised land as you are portraying then why not leave the private sector and work in the public one?

 

[Iaing]

No support or sympathy at all.

My workforce were "advised" to transfer out of our final salary scheme 18 months ago or we would be out of a job. We transferred out at great cost,but kept our jobs.This is called realism.

It is bloody galling to know that between 20% and 25% of ALL council tax is spent funding public sector pensions. The private sector doesn't have the luxury of this funding.

Half their pay and double their hours I say!!

 

[colint]

The idea that public sector workers receive lower salaries than private sector is complete and utter tosh. The Sunday Times did a survey in 2010 which revealed that public sector pay is, on average, 7% HIGHER than in the private sector. Private sector workers have been receiving pay cuts in recent years, never mind low pay rises, just to keep their jobs. The idea that the pension scheme is a compensation for the low pay may have been true 20 years ago, but it's completely irrelevant now.


The often trotted out point about some of the pensions being low ie sub £2k is also irrelevant. There was some £200k a year union official bleating on about how some of the staff effected were cleaners etc and now would have to work longer before getting their pension and pay more for it. My mother was a cleaner in the private sector, guess what pension she got when she retired ?

The schemes as they stand cannot be afforded. The only way to continue to pay these outrageousley generous pensions is by taking tax money from other areas. So what shall we have ? Public sector workers with nice pensions but less hospital beds ? How about everyone in the private sector continues to pay more tax and work longer so the public sector workers can retire early ?

Public sector workers receive significantly better holidays, maternity pay and sick pay.

If it's so bad in the public sector, then leave. Come over to the private sector and see how long you last in the real world.

Out of interest if the public sector is the promised land as you are portraying then why not leave the private sector and work in the public one?

Because I don't want to, I like my job and couldn't do the same job in the public sector. The day I start to dislike it is the day I leave, as opposed to whining and bleating. For the record I've received 1 pay rise in 5 years, I get minimum holidays, no sick pay and no company pension, but I get other benefits through being good at what I do and working hard

 

[AuburnWarrior]

Neither the public or the private sector are perfect.

I've worked my entire life in the private sector. I've worked for, on paper, some of the best employers in the world. I could tell you stories of how they treated their staff that'd make you cry!!

I've met countless people down the years who've worked for the public sector. The stories that they've told me of ineffectual working practices, red tape, union interference and financial wastage would also make you cry!!

My Sister mentioned something to me the other day and it went along the lines of:

"I couldn't believe it! The girl I work with is on sick leave at the moment and no-one has been doing her job. My Manager asked me to cover for her. I had to confirm with my Manager that he'd run this past the union."

"Why's that?" I asked.

"Well, as per union rules, I'm not allowed to do any work that isn't stipulated in my contract. My colleague's work isn't covered in my contract so I couldn't do it."

"So what happened?" asked I.

"The work never got done." was her reply.

That, Ladies and Gentleman, is everything that's wrong with the public sector!!

If I'd taken the same line in my job I'd have been out on my ear - no unions, no strikes, no nice pay off!!

* Please note * I do not include proper public servants such as Policemen, Firemen, Nurses, etc in this statement - just the pen pushing, public purse fleecing ne'er do wells that continue to suck the system dry.

 

[MoonPig]

Neither the public or the private sector are perfect.

I've worked my entire life in the private sector. I've worked for, on paper, some of the best employers in the world. I could tell you stories of how they treated their staff that'd make you cry!!

I've met countless people down the years who've worked for the public sector. The stories that they've told me of ineffectual working practices, red tape, union interference and financial wastage would also make you cry!!

My Sister mentioned something to me the other day and it went along the lines of:

"I couldn't believe it! The girl I work with is on sick leave at the moment and no-one has been doing her job. My Manager asked me to cover for her. I had to confirm with my Manager that he'd run this past the union."

"Why's that?" I asked.

"Well, as per union rules, I'm not allowed to do any work that isn't stipulated in my contract. My colleague's work isn't covered in my contract so I couldn't do it."

"So what happened?" asked I.

"The work never got done." was her reply.

That, Ladies and Gentleman, is everything that's wrong with the public sector!!

If I'd taken the same line in my job I'd have been out on my ear - no unions, no strikes, no nice pay off!!

* Please note * I do not include proper public servants such as Policemen, Firemen, Nurses, etc in this statement - just the pen pushing, public purse fleecing ne'er do wells that continue to suck the system dry.

I do agree with the union aspect, working in the managerial side of the public sector unions do tend to have or "think" they have too much power im afraid with certain aspects of daily work.

 

[USER1999]

It is surprising how many ex policemen and ex firemen I know who have retired early. Very early. This is not possible in the private sector unless you really stash money away. It has been time for change for a while, now it is happening. Sorry for those going through it, but in the long term, this really has not been fair. Public sector salaries have been on. Par for a while, but pensions went adrift yolks ago. Same with holidays, training days, etc.

Wake up, we can no longer pay for this.

 

[MoonPig]

It is surprising how many ex policemen and ex firemen I know who have retired early. Very early. This is not possible in the private sector unless you really stash money away. It has been time for change for a while, now it is happening. Sorry for those going through it, but in the long term, this really has not been fair. Public sector salaries have been on. Par for a while, but pensions went adrift yolks ago. Same with holidays, training days, etc.

Wake up, we can no longer pay for this.

I don`t have any objection to this Murph other than as i mentioned earlier the change should start with new starters to the careers as oppose to changing the goalposts halfway through someones working life.

 

[viscount17]

I do not and never have believed in strikes. This is in part probably due to a forces background, in part due to my low-paid, labour voting, old-time Daily Mirror reading, Dad who also didn't believe in them, especially after being forced not to work by the union during a national strike, then as soon as that strike was over the local union went back on strike to 'maintain their differential'. (At the time he was a bus conductor, and his company had paid a bit more than most.)

I entirely agree that the public sector should have to work to same age as the private sector.

Most of the private sector has already been through the pain barrier, more than once. Within 2 years of joining the company, on our site alone, the work force was reduced from nearly 9,000 to a fraction over 1,000. For those that 'survived' we went through 5 years of no rises - well we still had a job didn't we? We've restructured more than once, gone international and every time more job losses. We've gone through the pension rip-off (now who was that - Brown?), paying a higher % to cover that deficit. Still after all that I'm still in the final salary scheme, closed to anybody new of course, but I'll be working until 70.