The future of golf courses is in...

[ScienceBoy]

The future of golf courses is in their LENGTH! Times (and weekends) are changing! So should the course length to accommodate!

Well weekends have probably have been for a while but for me the big change is coming later this year when we start our new family life with 3 people in it rather than 2.

Putting that aside I look back on my time playing golf and I realise I have always spent a lot of time at the club. Back then it was fine as the wife was working weekends and I had not if all of saturday to myself. This has not been the case for a couple of years and along with other things golf has not been right at the front.

I also recently played a poorly kept (sorry to whoever may have worked there, I know you guys did try!) course, which was really too long for its member base and too tough.

I do think full 18 hole courses have their place and I do enjoy them BUT I also think that a lot of 18 hole courses are too long, even for the member base, usually by about 1000 yards.

I think the future of golf is in courses 2000-5500 yards long with a smaller footprint on the landscape than current 6700 yard 18 hole courses. These shorter courses should be cheaper and easier to maintain, I prefer quality over quantity! Also take less time to play while also being a challenge for all golfers.

Restricting drivers to all but 3 or 4 holes, probably only one or two par 5s, having more par 3s and a variety of par 4s should keep the round fresh and exciting.

I have always held this view, even when I played and loved a full course. I just thing those courses have had their day and now we need to move to something different, not quite a par 3 course but just a more condensed, well laid out, short 18 hole course that is of high greenkeeping quality.

I think this is applicable to normal AND competition play, you don't have to agree but please cast a vote!

 

[Imurg]

The future is a combination of lengths.
You need the longer courses for Pro/Elite amateur events and for many others who enjoy that challenge.
You need the 6-6500 yarders for "normal" play.
Then there is the 5-6000 yarders, almost a nursery slope - but these are often still tough enough for good players
Then come the short par 3 courses - ideal for beginners, quick rounds, practice and fun games.
I think you need all these courses.
You also have the issue of differing standards. To a long hitter, a 6000 yard course is a pitch and putt but to a shorter hitting Senior it can be a beast and almost unplayable.
What golf does need is more par 3/short courses to cater for those that don't have time for a conventional round.

 

[ScienceBoy]

The future is a combination of lengths.
You need the longer courses for Pro/Elite amateur events and for many others who enjoy that challenge.
You need the 6-6500 yarders for "normal" play.
Then there is the 5-6000 yarders, almost a nursery slope - but these are often still tough enough for good players
Then come the short par 3 courses - ideal for beginners, quick rounds, practice and fun games.
I think you need all these courses.
You also have the issue of differing standards. To a long hitter, a 6000 yard course is a pitch and putt but to a shorter hitting Senior it can be a beast and almost unplayable.
What golf does need is more par 3/short courses to cater for those that don't have time for a conventional round.

I pretty much agree with the above BUT I would love to see solid competitive play across all course lengths, we need less full 18 hole courses and more shorter courses, that is something I agree on! 6000-6500 is still a touch too long for normal play IMO, its not a big enough change, it needs to be 4500-5500 to make a difference.

 

[Deleted member 15344]

Wish there was an option for a mix

Current length courses with extra tees to boost the length for big comps

When it comes to golf it appears most people like hitting it long and most appear to like using the driver a lot of the tee so whilst it's prob more sensible to have shorter courses to encourage more golfers and even possibly improve your game I can't see many short courses being built beyond what is already out there to play.

The ideal place would be one with two courses - one a short one then the other with the ability to adjust the length

 

[ScienceBoy]

Wish there was an option for a mix

I considered it but I thought it would defeat the point of the poll, a bit of a get out clause to avoid the actual reason for me asking.

Sorry if the response seems a little blunt, its not meant personally, I am just trying to be honest with my answer.

I am in favour of a mix however, a club having one short course (4-6000 yards) and one championship course (6700+) is a great idea BUT it would not acheive all the objectives as it would need lots of space and probably be more expensive than it should be as the shorter course could get use and the longer more expensive course would get less, driving up costs for the shorter course.

 

[Imurg]

I pretty much agree with the above BUT I would love to see solid competitive play across all course lengths, we need less full 18 hole courses and more shorter courses, that is something I agree on! 6000-6500 is still a touch too long for normal play IMO, its not a big enough change, it needs to be 4500-5500 to make a difference.

Does there need to be a change for normal play? I think too much is made of the numbers who do not have time to play a conventional round. Yes, shorter courses are needed to speed things up for some but the majority still want, in my opinion, the norm.
Shorter courses will encourage newbies to the game, that's for sure.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Does there need to be a change for normal play? I think too much is made of the numbers who do not have time to play a conventional round. Yes, shorter courses are needed to speed things up for some but the majority still want, in my opinion, the norm.
Shorter courses will encourage newbies to the game, that's for sure.

Point taken there, might be too much made of it.

Is saying "no smoke without fire" management speak? I better tread lightly if it is! Whatever you do make a good point but I still feel the lean is towards shorter courses for normal club members not longer. Sadly I think the top few percent dragging out the "championship course" idea needs to be reversed to SOME degree, my view probably being the more extreme end of it.

 

[Tongo]

I've gone for par 3 courses but i would like to see them a decent length, so somewhere in the region of 2500-3000 yards.

Having said that, new par 3 courses could market themselves on the short amount of time to play and the environmental boon of using less land etc.

 

[ScienceBoy]

I've gone for par 3 courses but i would like to see them a decent length, so somewhere in the region of 2500-3000 yards.

Having said that, new par 3 courses could market themselves on the short amount of time to play and the environmental boon of using less land etc.

I see your point here, 2000 is on the lower side, I did chose the boundaries quite carfully.

Ampfield par 3 is one of the best par 3 courses I have played, measuring 2300ish yards. I have played it when it was quite busy and it still took time to get round. Under 2000 is probably the cutoff between a small par 3 course and what Ampfield is. Ampfield feels like a short course, just without any par 4s (although some holes are tough enough to be!)

Around Winchester there are some great short courses, Ampfield (2300 yards) and Avington Park (3800 yards) are just two that stand out. We need more courses like them in Cambridge! We do have Cambridge lakes which is my current home and I love it!

The closest we have is Girton, high quality at just 6000 yards, pretty much my intended home when I get into the routine of having a little one around! If it (and the wife) let me. If I had to find a middle ground between my view of idea and the current, this is it!

 

[Tongo]

I see your point here, 2000 is on the lower side, I did chose the boundaries quite carfully.

Ampfield par 3 is one of the best par 3 courses I have played, measuring 2300ish yards. I have played it when it was quite busy and it still took time to get round. Under 2000 is probably the cutoff between a small par 3 course and what Ampfield is. Ampfield feels like a short course, just without any par 4s (although some holes are tough enough to be!)

Around Winchester there are some great short courses, Ampfield and Avington Park are just two that stand out. We need more courses like them in Cambridge! We do have Cambridge lakes which is my current home and I love it!

Yeah, i like Ampfield. Doesnt look much but there are some good holes. There are a few on the back 9 which are a little on the short side but i guess when you consider the small amount of land the course is in its not surprising!

Havent played Avington Park. May well have to take a venture up there this summer.

 

[ScienceBoy]

Havent played Avington Park. May well have to take a venture up there this summer.

DO IT! Its a cracking course, tight but challenging with decent greens. As long as its well looked after that place is golfing heaven for those with little time to spare.

 

[Tongo]

DO IT! Its a cracking course, tight but challenging with decent greens. As long as its well looked after that place is golfing heaven for those with little time to spare.

You've persuaded me! Not sure when, but i'll take a trip up somewhen soon.

 

[USER1999]

Not for me, no. I find playing a course in its shorter version, say off the yellows, means playing half the course. I want to play a proper length golf course, ideally between 6500 and 7000 yards. That is golf to me.

 

[Deleted Member 1156]

Why is there no 'All of the above' option which would be the correct answer?

 

[patricks148]

You need a mix, all well and good having short courses but what about golfers who played for a while and elite golf 6000 yard courses are no use to guys trying to get into the Pro ranks or play at elite Am level?

My home course has had the 3 main Am comps, Walker, Curtis cup and British Am championship and at 6700 the course is no longer enough at the length to have them again.

 

[Hallsy]

Im a member of a little 9 hole golf course that measures 3900yds when played twice. I joined as all the local clubs are £1k plus a year to join and as i can only play roughly every other weekend and a few summers evenings i feel the outlay for me wasnt cost effective. My little club hasnt got a grand clubhouse, the bar is about 3ft long and only has about 3 or 4 tables tucked away in the corner. But what it does offer is a driving range, practice bunker and putting green. Everyones very friendly and its very busy with with 5 pros teaching adult begginer courses and a big junior set up teaching youngsters from 5 years upwards. It costs me £200 a year and i get my handicap and more importantly a county card to play other courses at half price.
It suits me at present with work/family time but do enjoy playing the longer courses so i think there will always be a place for both short and long courses with todays lifestyles.
The Players club in South Glos has just purchased the local municipal golf course in portishead where i live and have just got permission to turn that into 9 hole 2700yd course with good facilities so will look into that shortly.

 

[duncan mackie]

I considered it but I thought it would defeat the point of the poll, a bit of a get out clause to avoid the actual reason for me asking.

Sorry if the response seems a little blunt, its not meant personally, I am just trying to be honest with my answer.

I am in favour of a mix however, a club having one short course (4-6000 yards) and one championship course (6700+) is a great idea BUT it would not acheive all the objectives as it would need lots of space and probably be more expensive than it should be as the shorter course could get use and the longer more expensive course would get less, driving up costs for the shorter course.

We have both, and have memberships that cover all the options related to them.

As I've posted before in handicap threads the issue of competitive play across all the options doesn't work when you move away from the core 5800 - 6400 yardage; but that's merely something to recognise and accept rather than a reason not to have a mix available in practice.
We aren't an expensive club - membership rates are fairly consistent with local 18 hole courses.