The Custom Fitting Conspiracy

[jammag]

I can only see how custom fitting works to an extent for us who are not professional players.

It works if you are taller or shorter than usual requiring different lengths of clubs.

It doesnt work for lie n loft etc as we all swing slightly different most of the time. The pros are generally the only ones who will have a near enough exact swing most of the time hence why they are pro and we are not.

I know a few years ago a friend of mine said he got custom fitted for new clubs because he was losing faith in his irons. They said to him well we will adapt the club like this because your hands are quite low. He went ok then found out what he was doing wrong and started playing well with his older irons while his others were on order.

Custom fitting sounds to me like a very expensive lesson where you get a goody bag after.

 

[Mungoscorner]

What is unverifiable ?????
Please show me conclusive concrete evidence that custom fitting alone will improve a high handicappers game on a permanent basis.
Untill somebody can prove otherwise i'll file "custom fitting works for high handicappers" alongside "the longest most forgiving driver ever"

What is unverifiable? - your anecdote about the Cleveland driver, that's what.

Even if true, it means nothing more or less than you know one fitting which didn't work out well. Big deal. I know that surgery is an effective treatment for gall bladder problems but I also know some people have had bad results. So what? One experience doesn't prove anything and few treatments work for all patients/golfers.

Your contention that custom fitting should improve high handicappers on a permanent basis is obviously ridiculous and simply sets an impossible standard to allow you to cling on to your poorly informed prejudices.

As i thought,you have no evidence to disprove my theory on custom fitting.I'm speaking from experience,and not from "poorly informed prejudice".Fitting somebody to a swing they had on the day of the fitting,is nothing more than that,it worked on the day,that does not guarantee it will work,a week,month,year later.Add to this the fact that most of us "average" golfers don't have
consistent,repeptitive swings,and my theory makes even more sense.As for unverifiable,if you want,i can PM you all the details,the date,the location,the spec and model of the driver,and the name of the gentleman concerned.There was absolutely nothing wrong with the driver,and he hit it beautifully during the fitting process,but as i've said before,most of us hit the ball well when theres no consequence.Or is the customer at fault for bringing a different swing to the fitting ?????
Custom fitting works for some people,it does not work for all,and for anybody to suggest that it is a "must" when buying new clubs,and that it will improve somebodies game,is misleading at the very least.

 

[chris661]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the driver,and he hit it beautifully during the fitting process,

So the fitting process worked unlike your mates wonky swing?

Is your space bar broken?

 

[jammag]

Il give you an example of where I think custom fitting is not right for us amateurs.

I go for a custom fit they tell me that due to this n that with my swing I need spec A club.

Get my clubs start using em. Book myself in for a lesson 2 weeks later. Pro changes something in my swing to benefit me.

Now my clubs are not suited to my swing so would need another custom fit to get them rectified to my new swing.

So to me it seems silly having a custom fit if you still go to a pro who maybe trying to get you a better swing.

 

[chris661]

Il give you an example of where I think custom fitting is not right for us amateurs.

I go for a custom fit they tell me that due to this n that with my swing I need spec A club.

Get my clubs start using em. Book myself in for a lesson 2 weeks later. Pro changes something in my swing to benefit me.

Now my clubs are not suited to my swing so would need another custom fit to get them rectified to my new swing.

So to me it seems silly having a custom fit if you still go to a pro who maybe trying to get you a better swing.

Unless you are making drastic changes to your swing then surely the shaft flex and length is still going to be good, granted you may have to adjust loft and lie but generally that can be done by anyone(ish).

 

[jammag]

Well thats my point it maybe small changes to loft and lie but howmany go get it checked after different changes?

What about a small hip turn or a slight more rotation changing the swing speed which would muck up the shaft?

 

[Imurg]

Unless you've made a huge change to the way you swing the club then I can't see that shaft flex is going to change due to lessons. Same goes for lofts - how many have had lofts adjusted?
Don't forget custome fitting aslo takes into account grip size and length of shaft - they're not going to change.

I can possibly see a change in lie angle if your Pro gets you moving differently but if it's a degree or so out then it's not going to make much difference in the scheme of things.

Everyone eho buys clubs should get the correct flex shaft - without that you're onto a loser. Add into that grip size - more important than you'd think - and length of shaft and you have a "mini" custom fit of things that shouldn't change too much.

 

[Mungoscorner]

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the driver,and he hit it beautifully during the fitting process,

So the fitting process worked unlike your mates wonky swing?

Is your space bar broken?

How did the fitting process work then ?
Because he hit half a dozen decent drives on the day ?

 

[G1BB0]

I will get custom fit if I am down to 12 and under and able to practice regularly, or I win a substantial amount on the lottery, until then I know its a waste of money as I dont feel I would be maximising their potential (aka still an erratic part time hacker, all the gear and no idea )

 

[Matty]

What is unverifiable ?????
Please show me conclusive concrete evidence that custom fitting alone will improve a high handicappers game on a permanent basis.
Untill somebody can prove otherwise i'll file "custom fitting works for high handicappers" alongside "the longest most forgiving driver ever"

What is unverifiable? - your anecdote about the Cleveland driver, that's what.

Even if true, it means nothing more or less than you know one fitting which didn't work out well. Big deal. I know that surgery is an effective treatment for gall bladder problems but I also know some people have had bad results. So what? One experience doesn't prove anything and few treatments work for all patients/golfers.

Your contention that custom fitting should improve high handicappers on a permanent basis is obviously ridiculous and simply sets an impossible standard to allow you to cling on to your poorly informed prejudices.

Anecdotes are not the same things as evidence. A few people telling how good custom fitting is does not mean categorically that it improves their golf.

It's already been stated in this post that custom fitting most likely improves your confidence - but does that deliver an improvement in your game? On the course does the ball go further and straighter? Do you get around the course in fewer shots every single time or is your average and handicap the same as it was before?

I can supply an anecdote that my father in law was fitted for clubs and show improvement in the first few week - but for the last 6 months his game has gone down hill and he can't recover to how he was before he got fitted.

I don't claim in any way that fitting doesn't work based on this one case but equally I'm not convinced that fitting works for the average amateur golfer as I've seen no figures or data to prove it. As I say above, is there a persistent increase in distance, improvement in accuracy and reduction in shots per round for those that take up fitting compared to those who buy off the shelf? If so, where is this data?

 

[Mungoscorner]

Maybe one of the guys at GM could do an article on custom fitting ? I know this has been done before,but how about doing it "undercover" ?
Take an average high handicap golfer who plays once or twice a week,arrange for a custom fitting session without informing the people/company doing the fitting that its GM.
Then monitor the golfers scores over a period of time,to find out whether there has been an improvement due to the custom fitting.

 

[Imurg]

I think this is a sound idea.
We all hear the "Custom Fit is King" call from the manufacturers and the magazines.

Time to prove it methinks.

Trouble is there are so many factors to take into account. Just because someone gets fitted and gets worse, doesn't necessarily mean it's down to the custom fit.

 

[chris661]

Maybe one of the guys at GM could do an article on custom fitting ? I know this has been done before,but how about doing it "undercover" ?
Take an average high handicap golfer who plays once or twice a week,arrange for a custom fitting session without informing the people/company doing the fitting that its GM.
Then monitor the golfers scores over a period of time,to find out whether there has been an improvement due to the custom fitting.

It would never happen. What if the person that gets used is pretty hopeless after being fitted, will they honestly upset the advertisers by saying the fitting process is rubbish!

What would be a better idea is to do a comparison of say a national fitting centre, local pro and independent fitter to see if/how much the results vary.

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Itried the TM R11's last week. It comes with a KBS 90 shaft as standard but I then tried it with a Dynamic Gold and Dynamic Gold XP so you could call it an inpromptu C/F session. The Dynamic gold was too heavy and I strugged but the XP produced a more pleasing flight than the KBS. What I would have needed though was to see thing like launch nagle, spin and most of all the dispersion. Bearing in mind I'd walked off the course the day before in frustration my confidence was rock bottom and so anything could have happened. I even hit some TM MC irons as a comparison so it wasn't as if the R11 alone were the placebo.

My conclusion? I think the right shaft set up and a user friendly clubhead make a winning combination and in my opinon C/F definitely has its place.

 

[SGC001]

Tom Wishon (a clubfitter admittedly) takes a different view. He believes that it is almost more important for amateurs than pros who are arguably more capable of adapting their swing. For him it's more a case of when and not if.

A couple of examples:
A fair number of players seem to struggle with a slice (most established players have a fairly consistent shot pattern even if it's not the one they want), offset, closed face clubs with more upright lie angle's can be fitted.

Shorter and more lofted drivers may suit more people than you'd think. You can lose more distance from missing the sweetspot than you gain by a slightly longer shaft. Slower swing speeds can benefit from the extra spin and launch angle from a higher lofted drivers to keep the ball in the air, never mind that the bit of extra backspin and draw bias lead to more of the balls energy going into ball speed and backspin as opposed to sidespin that could take the ball into trouble.

I'll try and find a quote from him on the subject.

 

[surefire]

The arguments here, remind me a bit of road cycling.

Yes, saving 100 grams on the weight of the bike, by fitting expensive carbon fibre bits will make you go a bit faster. However saving 5kg of weight from the rider will make you go faster still, and cost you a lot less.
Not all riders would have this much extra weight they could lose, but a fair few do.

So whilst there may be some benefit to fitting the fancy expensive parts, is the return worth the investment? Could there be a better way to achieve the same or better?
The answer to that is down to the individual.

If custom fitting reduces a 24 handicapper to a 21, it has done its job, but will the player be happy with the result for the money they spend?

 

[sev112]

i think amateur golfers have more repeatable swings than is given credit. My playing partners (and me) hit the same duff shots over and over again .

But i think changing clubs while chainging swing mechanics is giong to be interesting.

Having said that, i am convinced that lie angle is worth getting sorted if you have the chance, and get them checked periodically too

 

[thatsanother5]

Went to Clays Golf at Wrexham for custom fitting of new set of Ping irons.Was advised that I wasn't hitting them any better than my existing irons.Therefore decided to get Custom fit for a new driver.Once again I was told there was no perceptible difference to my existing driver.That was two potential sales that they lost.Obviously they have the customers interest at heart.I ended up purchasing three Benross Quad rescues.They are working a treat.Would recommend Clays to anybody

 

[sev112]

Of course, we could really have an argument about what is being "fitted" - there are a lot of parameters that could be used and they are quite different.

Typically it seems that most clubs are fittedon lie angle, shaft type/"stiffness" and then the manufacturer applies the same swing weight to each club in the set.

But there are other ways - there are still club makers out there who will make every club in your set (form 3i to SW) the same length ! Some will try and make the Moment of Inertia of the club (not the head) the same on each club. There are other variants too.

 

[SGC001]

Silly thing wouldn't let me edit (maximum expiry time???)

Here's a quote:

You think that custom fit golf clubs are only for good golfers? That myth could not be farther from the truth. Look at it this way: The pros are skilled enough to be able to play well with almost any golf club. You, on the other hand, are not, which means that YOU need properly fitted golf clubs even more than THEY do. You need them to minimise the swing errors the pros don't have and to maximise your swing strengths.
Now let's be clear- I an NOT saying you can buy "skill" as a golfer...learning and "grooving" the proper swing fundamentals are the keys to game improvement for any golfer...I AM saying, however, that equipment that doesn't fit - that is the wrong length, or loft, or weight,or balance - can keep you from being all that you could be as a golfer (at any level), and it might keep you from becoming a golfer at all...How many know that perhaps a good part of their frustration was due to a driver they bought that is essentially unhittable to in the hands of an average golfer? How many that that their 3- and 4- irons are made unhittable at the factory, BY DESIGN?...

Btw I wasn't shouting that's part of the quote. Basically he's a fan of shorter more lofted drivers and hybrids / lofted woods if your swing speed etc: is appropriate for these clubs and points out later the average driver length on tour is 44.5" (1/2" shorter than the standard on the shelf ones) available)