The Custom Fitting Conspiracy

What I don't understand is that when I was a kid there were only two golf club manufacturers that offered custom fit - PING and Petron.

At the time, my club had many, many players who were single figure golfers.

Were they all playing PING/Petron??

No.

So, they must have been using off the shelf clubs and natural talent.

Custom fit clubs won't get you to low single figures - natural talent will.

When I had my custom fit with the Wilson tour van - what did they fit me for?? 1 degree stronger lofts (I knew that I needed that as I hit my irons VERY high), standard lie and dynamic gold stiff shafts. My old irons had these very shafts.

So, does custom fit actually help?? Probably not - it's still about feeling confident with your clubs BUT, if it increases your confidence levels then it's an invaluable addition to your purchase.
 
Haven't read the entire thread, but my 2p worth.

If you have a consistant swing, then there is no harm getting fit.

I had a course of lessons, built a swing and then went to Mizuno. The results where surprisingly good.

I couldn't understand why I could hit a perfectly good 6 iron 130 yards one shot and 160 the next. It was the 'uniflex' shaft off the shelf.

Once you have the swing for it, do it. Problem is, if you want to change the swing, you might have to change the clubs!
 
I have been fitted by a clubfitter with Tom Wishon's, and it's not only a case of getting the right flex, weight and length of shaft right, they also have to be properly fitted too. that means getting spines aligned,amongst other things. misaligned spines is one of the more common reasons for the dead club in a standard set, and FOR the odd correctly aligned one (by pure chance) that sings.

My driver was also fitted, and has a shorter than usual shaft, at about 44.5 in. When I get it right I don't lose out to too many on distance.

ps a couple of months after the fitting I got my first cut in over a year, 2.3. Struggling to keep down admittedly but then I only need one good round.
 
I've just got rid of my custom fitted irons, I could not hit them for toffee. I've just picked up some Pings admittedly 1 deg flat but that is all the fitting I need. My handicap hasn't moved because of custom fitting and I'm surrounded by guys who play off single figures at my place with off the shelf gear. No more custom fitting for me. You cannot fit a sub standard swing.
 
This is verifiable....

Mate of mine, Neil Dawes, lovely swing. Plays off 9. Hits the ball miles.
Sedlescombe driving range, the night before our first visit to The Addington. Went down to warm up. Was bombing his driver down the range. Straight as an arrow. Clearing the fence at the far end (I can't do that :(). He must have hit 50 balls in the space of an hour or so. 49 of them cleared the fence. Either arrow straight or, if he said he was going to hit a draw, they had a touch of draw.
If you had custom fitted him then, you would swear he had the right club. You wouldn't have convinced him otherwise. Result? No sale.

Following day at the Addington. He couldn't hit a straight drive to save his life. Hooks, slices, draws, fades, you name it, they were all there. Getting him into trouble. All coming in when they weren't needed.
If you had custom fitted him then you would have convinced him that he had the wrong shaft, loft, whatever and that you could help. Enter stage right the new £300.00 driver that has just been launched, and all the promises that go with it.
Result? A skint Neil.
;)
 
Maybe one of the guys at GM could do an article on custom fitting ? I know this has been done before,but how about doing it "undercover" ?
Take an average high handicap golfer who plays once or twice a week,arrange for a custom fitting session without informing the people/company doing the fitting that its GM.
Then monitor the golfers scores over a period of time,to find out whether there has been an improvement due to the custom fitting.
Click to expand...

Great start but the experience of one individual is still an anecdote, not evidence. To start this into becoming 'evidence' you'd have to take a group of average high handicapper golfers and send some for custom fitting while supply others with off-the-shelf kit. Then monitor all their scores and see which group does better.
 
You could even see if there was a placebo effect by putting some through the custom fit process then issuing them with off the shelf clubs. I am a bit on the fence about custom fit and really can see the benefit of a good investigative article
 
What is unverifiable ?????
Please show me conclusive concrete evidence that custom fitting alone will improve a high handicappers game on a permanent basis.
Untill somebody can prove otherwise i'll file "custom fitting works for high handicappers" alongside "the longest most forgiving driver ever"
Click to expand...

What is unverifiable? - your anecdote about the Cleveland driver, that's what.

Even if true, it means nothing more or less than you know one fitting which didn't work out well. Big deal. I know that surgery is an effective treatment for gall bladder problems but I also know some people have had bad results. So what? One experience doesn't prove anything and few treatments work for all patients/golfers.

Your contention that custom fitting should improve high handicappers on a permanent basis is obviously ridiculous and simply sets an impossible standard to allow you to cling on to your poorly informed prejudices.
Click to expand...

As i thought,you have no evidence to disprove my theory on custom fitting.I'm speaking from experience,and not from "poorly informed prejudice".Fitting somebody to a swing they had on the day of the fitting,is nothing more than that,it worked on the day,that does not guarantee it will work,a week,month,year later.Add to this the fact that most of us "average" golfers don't have
consistent,repeptitive swings,and my theory makes even more sense.As for unverifiable,if you want,i can PM you all the details,the date,the location,the spec and model of the driver,and the name of the gentleman concerned.There was absolutely nothing wrong with the driver,and he hit it beautifully during the fitting process,but as i've said before,most of us hit the ball well when theres no consequence.Or is the customer at fault for bringing a different swing to the fitting ?????
Custom fitting works for some people,it does not work for all,and for anybody to suggest that it is a "must" when buying new clubs,and that it will improve somebodies game,is misleading at the very least.
Click to expand...

Punctuation works. I can prove that. Have you considering trying some?

You have used a logical fallacy in suggesting that anyone said that custom fitting was infallible. Nobody said it was. Show me where I said it.

I have not conducted any randomised controlled trials on custom fitting, but even a cynic should accept that it stands to reason that:

(a) there are different types of equipment suited to different types of player
(b) playing with suitable equipment is likely to be better for your game than unsuitable equipment
(c) although players are variable and inconsistent, they don't suddenly add 10mph of driver speed and it is possible to identify a typical swing

Custom fitting doesn't mean that every 28 handicapper needs to be connected up to a NASA-designed piece of equipment which measures the angle of their dangle during impact, but finding out if a standard shaft launches too low or if they need more loft on their driver should make sense to anyone with more then one neurone. Checking if they have big hands and need larger grips, and checking the lie angle are all reasonable. Even Frank Thomas agrees.

If you just prefer to walk into AG and say 'I am a stiff', then good luck to you.
 
You can buy a suit from Asda that fits perfectly well for it's desired function. If you lose or gain a few pounds, it will still fit ok for the job.
If you lose or gain a dramatic amount of weight, you may need another suit.
 
What is unverifiable ?????
Please show me conclusive concrete evidence that custom fitting alone will improve a high handicappers game on a permanent basis.
Untill somebody can prove otherwise i'll file "custom fitting works for high handicappers" alongside "the longest most forgiving driver ever"
Click to expand...

What is unverifiable? - your anecdote about the Cleveland driver, that's what.

Even if true, it means nothing more or less than you know one fitting which didn't work out well. Big deal. I know that surgery is an effective treatment for gall bladder problems but I also know some people have had bad results. So what? One experience doesn't prove anything and few treatments work for all patients/golfers.

Your contention that custom fitting should improve high handicappers on a permanent basis is obviously ridiculous and simply sets an impossible standard to allow you to cling on to your poorly informed prejudices.
Click to expand...

As i thought,you have no evidence to disprove my theory on custom fitting.I'm speaking from experience,and not from "poorly informed prejudice".Fitting somebody to a swing they had on the day of the fitting,is nothing more than that,it worked on the day,that does not guarantee it will work,a week,month,year later.Add to this the fact that most of us "average" golfers don't have
consistent,repeptitive swings,and my theory makes even more sense.As for unverifiable,if you want,i can PM you all the details,the date,the location,the spec and model of the driver,and the name of the gentleman concerned.There was absolutely nothing wrong with the driver,and he hit it beautifully during the fitting process,but as i've said before,most of us hit the ball well when theres no consequence.Or is the customer at fault for bringing a different swing to the fitting ?????
Custom fitting works for some people,it does not work for all,and for anybody to suggest that it is a "must" when buying new clubs,and that it will improve somebodies game,is misleading at the very least.
Click to expand...

Punctuation works. I can prove that. Have you considering trying some?

You have used a logical fallacy in suggesting that anyone said that custom fitting was infallible. Nobody said it was. Show me where I said it.

I have not conducted any randomised controlled trials on custom fitting, but even a cynic should accept that it stands to reason that:

(a) there are different types of equipment suited to different types of player
(b) playing with suitable equipment is likely to be better for your game than unsuitable equipment
(c) although players are variable and inconsistent, they don't suddenly add 10mph of driver speed and it is possible to identify a typical swing

Custom fitting doesn't mean that every 28 handicapper needs to be connected up to a NASA-designed piece of equipment which measures the angle of their dangle during impact, but finding out if a standard shaft launches too low or if they need more loft on their driver should make sense to anyone with more then one neurone. Checking if they have big hands and need larger grips, and checking the lie angle are all reasonable. Even Frank Thomas agrees.

If you just prefer to walk into AG and say 'I am a stiff', then good luck to you.
Click to expand...

My views on custom fitting are simple,i know of several high handicappers who have been custom fitted,and the improvement was temporary.These are "verifiable" facts.
How did i become a Cat1 golfer with off the shelf clubs ?
If you don't agree with my point of view,thats fine,but don't start getting personal,by making silly comments about punctuation.Its a public forum. ;)
 
What is unverifiable ?????
Please show me conclusive concrete evidence that custom fitting alone will improve a high handicappers game on a permanent basis.
Untill somebody can prove otherwise i'll file "custom fitting works for high handicappers" alongside "the longest most forgiving driver ever"
Click to expand...

What is unverifiable? - your anecdote about the Cleveland driver, that's what.

Even if true, it means nothing more or less than you know one fitting which didn't work out well. Big deal. I know that surgery is an effective treatment for gall bladder problems but I also know some people have had bad results. So what? One experience doesn't prove anything and few treatments work for all patients/golfers.

Your contention that custom fitting should improve high handicappers on a permanent basis is obviously ridiculous and simply sets an impossible standard to allow you to cling on to your poorly informed prejudices.
Click to expand...

As i thought,you have no evidence to disprove my theory on custom fitting.I'm speaking from experience,and not from "poorly informed prejudice".Fitting somebody to a swing they had on the day of the fitting,is nothing more than that,it worked on the day,that does not guarantee it will work,a week,month,year later.Add to this the fact that most of us "average" golfers don't have
consistent,repeptitive swings,and my theory makes even more sense.As for unverifiable,if you want,i can PM you all the details,the date,the location,the spec and model of the driver,and the name of the gentleman concerned.There was absolutely nothing wrong with the driver,and he hit it beautifully during the fitting process,but as i've said before,most of us hit the ball well when theres no consequence.Or is the customer at fault for bringing a different swing to the fitting ?????
Custom fitting works for some people,it does not work for all,and for anybody to suggest that it is a "must" when buying new clubs,and that it will improve somebodies game,is misleading at the very least.
Click to expand...

Punctuation works. I can prove that. Have you considering trying some?

You have used a logical fallacy in suggesting that anyone said that custom fitting was infallible. Nobody said it was. Show me where I said it.

I have not conducted any randomised controlled trials on custom fitting, but even a cynic should accept that it stands to reason that:

(a) there are different types of equipment suited to different types of player
(b) playing with suitable equipment is likely to be better for your game than unsuitable equipment
(c) although players are variable and inconsistent, they don't suddenly add 10mph of driver speed and it is possible to identify a typical swing

Custom fitting doesn't mean that every 28 handicapper needs to be connected up to a NASA-designed piece of equipment which measures the angle of their dangle during impact, but finding out if a standard shaft launches too low or if they need more loft on their driver should make sense to anyone with more then one neurone. Checking if they have big hands and need larger grips, and checking the lie angle are all reasonable. Even Frank Thomas agrees.

If you just prefer to walk into AG and say 'I am a stiff', then good luck to you.
Click to expand...

My views on custom fitting are simple,i know of several high handicappers who have been custom fitted,and the improvement was temporary.These are "verifiable" facts.
How did i become a Cat1 golfer with off the shelf clubs ?
If you don't agree with my point of view,thats fine,but don't start getting personal,by making silly comments about punctuation.Its a public forum. ;)
Click to expand...

Well, it worked, didn't it? No harm in using proper English. Must keep up standards, you know.

Your statement about 'How did I become a Cat 1 golfer with off the shelf clubs' shows that you have completely and utterly missed the point.

Nobody said, and it is patently false, that you must be custom fitted to be a decent golfer. It is true, however, that many golfers are playing with unsuitable equipment and if they got more suitable equipment they may play better. Custom fitting is one approach to that, but you may be lucky enough to have a good eye and be able to choose suitable equipment for yourself. Many aren't. You probably chose clubs that were not super game improvement clubs with light graphite shafts because you knew you needed a more workable club and stiffer and heavier shafts. Custom fitting is basically a more structured way of making that decision.
 
I think what Bob said sums it up pretty well. My opinion on custom fitting is if you have a good practice session your swing works well you could probably hit any club so it may be recommended you go for a more advanced club. If you have a poor practice and get custom fitted they may recommend you go for the most forgiving irons there are. It all depends how you play on the day of the custom fit. I feel its a bit over used at the moment as most people just want to see how quick they swing etc.
 
I Don't agree with the detractors, custom fitting has to have benefits and everyone can get something out of it. Unless your just starting your swing will be pretty much the same only difference is the timing, over active wrists or whatever but you will take the club back and through on the sameish plane.

Shaft length, club lie, grip size are quite important as too is shaft flex, so come on, you can't disagree that correct adjustments on these won't benefit. Oh and who doesn't love looking at stats and figures when it's about your golf game?
 
Does custom fitting work? Of course it does.

Pick any number of golfers you know who have a repeatable swing and have a particular ball flight, maybe a slice or a hook, or a low ball flight or high ball flight. Its not hard to get a set of clubs that will counteract that ball flight. Taking it a step further lets assume they are either 4'10" or 6'6", and its pretty obvious they'd benefit from different shaft lengths than standard - if you don't they'll end up either toe down or toe up.

Its not a great leap to conclude that having fitted them with something that suits their swing and physical build they will score better.

For 35 yrs I bought off the shelf. I was sceptical but went along to a fitting session with an independent where I could try clubs from several different manufacturers. I went there hoping for Mizuno but the stats said too great a dispersion and too high a spin rate with them. End result was I bought Callaway based on hard evidence, and the golf since has proven the choice was right.

Went through the same process a couple of months ago for my next set, and have had them for about 6 weeks. And playing the new irons has already seen some great scores - there's no learning process if they're fitted. Its like putting on a pair of shoes that have been made to measure.
 
Ok so you went along to custom fitting you had the right club as such but how do you know if you wouldnt of gone again a week later that you would come up with the same club? Another set you didnt hit right on the day couldve been better and you may of played better.

I think for it to work you need to be constantly updating your custom fit session and stats etc or rather than 1 session maybe you should do 3 and then take an average make sure you do get the right club.
 
One phrase seems to keep cropping up - "repeatable swing".

Don't be picky about the numbers but, taking out putts and chips/pitches, I might make (say) 30/40 reasonably full shots in a round. Playing currently off 14, that's probably 30/40 different swings.

These swings will be completely different from those I might perform whilst being "custom fitted" with someone analysing every facet of the swing.

Whilst I agree that shaft, lie, etc, etc, can be important, unless your swing is repeatable you may not get the right combination that suits you after a short time once back on the course.
 
One phrase seems to keep cropping up - "repeatable swing".

Don't be picky about the numbers but, taking out putts and chips/pitches, I might make (say) 30/40 reasonably full shots in a round. Playing currently off 14, that's probably 30/40 different swings.

These swings will be completely different from those I might perform whilst being "custom fitted" with someone analysing every facet of the swing.

Whilst I agree that shaft, lie, etc, etc, can be important, unless your swing is repeatable you may not get the right combination that suits you after a short time once back on the course.
Click to expand...

+1

Nail on the head Leftie
 
You can buy a suit from Asda that fits perfectly well for it's desired function. If you lose or gain a few pounds, it will still fit ok for the job.
If you lose or gain a dramatic amount of weight, you may need another suit.
Click to expand...

But you still need to know what size you are to start with.

And if you are very tall or short, you still need trousers that are longer or shorter than standard.

And for a little more money you can go to Burton's and get a suit that fits just a little bit better.

Now

Why do you need the suit?

If it is just to go to work in, then great. If you've been in your job for 20 years and everyone knows you, and you are never going to change jobs, then Asda is fine.

But if you are going for an interview for a new job with a £5K salary increase, then a better, more expensive suit that fits snugly round the buttocks, rather than just hangs on your frame, is going to give you just that tiny extra chance of impressing the interviewer.

:cool:
 
I am a poor golfer.

I strive to become an average golfer.

Will I ever get there ? Unlikely.

Will custom fit work for me ? Yes. Undoubtedly. Definitely. Unquestionably !

Because there is one thing all you naysayers have ignored.

The skillset of the guy that is doing the fitting.

Cue anecdote :p

GM were kind enough to sign me up for the Ping day last year. You remember, the one where we thrashed the pants off them, thanks to some stunning play from the higher handicap members of the team :o

Anyway, I digress.

We also were given a Ping driver, to be custom fitted for us.

The fitter watched my swing with my existing driver, and we discussed my current handicap, and what I intended to do over the next year or two to change it. He said his advice would be different for someone who was set in their ways, as opposed to someone who had plans to get their handicap down.

Long story short, I walked away with a K15 driver. The numbers for the I15 and the K15 were similar, althought the club, shaft combinations were totally different.

My swing nowadays is totally ( well a tiny bit, sometimes, when I swing it right ) different to the one I had on the day. But the club will is good enough for me now, and will be good enough for me if I ever get to reduce my handicap by up to 3 or 4 shots.

Which is the absolute best I will ever aspire to.

Now if someone else had had the exact figures as me on the day, but was younger, and had the talent and drive to get better, then the fitter would have suggested they go with the I15.

Because custom fitting isn't going to give a high handicapper the perfect club to make you a perfect golfer, it's just going to maximise the skillset you have at the time.

Of course, if that skillset changes dramatically, your need for a new set of clubs will change. But then, if you bought a set off the peg, you'd change it once you reached a certain point, anyway.

 
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