The Custom Fitting Conspiracy

[Snelly]

I veer from having a moderate to extreme view on this subject and today's is the latter.

Custom fitting is a waste of time. It is a process designed by golf club manufacturers to extricate more cash from the gullible. You should get a free magnetic bangle after the range session to complete the charade.

I know loads of very, very good players who have never been custom fitted for any of their bats. They generally play with good quality, off the shelf clubs that they have tried and hit well and invariably proceed to do very well with them.

I also know plenty of golfers who have gone to extraordinary lengths to get all their equipment to the perfect specification for them and guess what? They are still absolutely crap.

You can't polish a turd.

Cheers,


Snelly.

Extreme views are invariably wrong, at least in part and sometimes in their entirety.

The point that CF should not cost extra completely deflates your entire rant. Buy a set of Mizuno clubs after getting CF'd, same price as off the shelf.

Whether there are plenty of good players playing well with non-fitted equipment is also entirely irrelevant. That only proves that CF is not necessary, not that it works or doesn't.

But do you know any players who were not CF'd who play crap? Of course you do. They just don't serve your so-called argument. Do you know any players who have been CF'd who play better? No? I don't belive you, but in any case let me introduce you to some.

And you know players who have gone to extraordinary lengths. Wow, nice hyperbole. Did they climb Kilimanjaro or walk across Antartica? I didn't know there were CF centres there. Or perhaps they fought off crocodiles or flesh eating zombies?

Ethan,

I think of you as an erudite contributor on this site. I perceive you as a highly rational, objective bloke with a scientific way of building a point. This may be wrong but it is my perception. In addition, I normally find myself agreeing in general terms with you views.

Unusual then that I think you are talking hogwash whenever the subject of custom fitting is raised.

Yes, extreme views are often wrong but that is precisely what yours appear to be on CF. It seems from your posts that CF is a basic essential for the good golfer and clinically proven to deliver positive results. An extreme view if ever there was one.

I could go on but it is a waste of time as our views are diametrically opposite.

I liked your comment about zombies and crocodiles by the way.

One other thought occured to me which is what is the point of being fitted for a custom set of Titleist when you could potentially get an incremental improvement (if you believe the CF hype) from forged Callaways? Surely to get to the pinnacle of custom fitted glory, one needs to try the model that best suits you in a custom fitting session from every major club manufacturer that takes your fancy? Otherwise, how can you know if you made the right ultimate choice?

 

[Snelly]

I will say that the higher the handicap, the less good it will do, but for anyone in single digits not to get fitted, is ignorance x arrogance imo.

Good for you. I am definitely ignorant and arrogant then.

And to prove the latter, I bet I can beat you off level any day of the week.....

 

[Ethan]

I veer from having a moderate to extreme view on this subject and today's is the latter.

Custom fitting is a waste of time. It is a process designed by golf club manufacturers to extricate more cash from the gullible. You should get a free magnetic bangle after the range session to complete the charade.

I know loads of very, very good players who have never been custom fitted for any of their bats. They generally play with good quality, off the shelf clubs that they have tried and hit well and invariably proceed to do very well with them.

I also know plenty of golfers who have gone to extraordinary lengths to get all their equipment to the perfect specification for them and guess what? They are still absolutely crap.

You can't polish a turd.

Cheers,


Snelly.

Extreme views are invariably wrong, at least in part and sometimes in their entirety.

The point that CF should not cost extra completely deflates your entire rant. Buy a set of Mizuno clubs after getting CF'd, same price as off the shelf.

Whether there are plenty of good players playing well with non-fitted equipment is also entirely irrelevant. That only proves that CF is not necessary, not that it works or doesn't.

But do you know any players who were not CF'd who play crap? Of course you do. They just don't serve your so-called argument. Do you know any players who have been CF'd who play better? No? I don't belive you, but in any case let me introduce you to some.

And you know players who have gone to extraordinary lengths. Wow, nice hyperbole. Did they climb Kilimanjaro or walk across Antartica? I didn't know there were CF centres there. Or perhaps they fought off crocodiles or flesh eating zombies?

Ethan,

I think of you as an erudite contributor on this site. I perceive you as a highly rational, objective bloke with a scientific way of building a point. This may be wrong but it is my perception. In addition, I normally find myself agreeing in general terms with you views.

Unusual then that I think you are talking hogwash whenever the subject of custom fitting is raised.

Yes, extreme views are often wrong but that is precisely what yours appear to be on CF. It seems from your posts that CF is a basic essential for the good golfer and clinically proven to deliver positive results. An extreme view if ever there was one.

I could go on but it is a waste of time as our views are diametrically opposite.

I liked your comment about zombies and crocodiles by the way.

One other thought occured to me which is what is the point of being fitted for a custom set of Titleist when you could potentially get an incremental improvement (if you believe the CF hype) from forged Callaways? Surely to get to the pinnacle of custom fitted glory, one needs to try the model that best suits you in a custom fitting session from every major club manufacturer that takes your fancy? Otherwise, how can you know if you made the right ultimate choice?

I think you misunderstand my views. I don't think that CF is the be all and end all, nor do I think that the eye of an experienced pro is unimportant. The ideal combination is an experienced pro who understands the players preferences and needs and gives informed advice using high quality data derived from well conducted custom fitting assessments.

It is a bit like, to use another medical analogy, an MRI scanner. Useful kit but unless used by someone who understands the clinical picture of the patient, likely to result in the wrong diagnosis. But it sure helps.

For example, the Mizuno Swing DNA set-up gives data on 3 swings to recommend 3 shafts. These are based mainly on tempo and swing speed. But these are only the starting point and the shaft decision is based on the players feel and weight preferences as well. Any CF that puts a player into something they don't like the feel or look off won't work out well.

For me, the head design is much less important than the shaft, so if you fancy one look or design over another, so long as it is not a butter knife for a 28 handicapper, fine. Then the shaft weight and flex can be chosen to complement the head.

Over the past few years Luke Donald has used a range of different woods and hybrids, but reportedly he has used pretty much the same shafts through all of them.

 

[sev112]

Mungo - Spot on, glad someone else has seen the same point I was making.

Homer - What you do as an individual, doesn't mean that’s what the golf companies designed demo days for.

Do you others really believe that in the boardrooms of the golf companies, they come up with demo days as a goodwill gesture to golfers, and custom fitting, because they want to lower the worlds handicaps?

They come up with these schemes to sell equipment and make money for themselves and the shareholders. If making people better is a by product of this (custom fit), bonus!

You would have to be very naive to think any other way.

And you would have to be even more cynical to think that everybody in the world of business is a money making zealot who dont care about their product and its value to the masses. There are lots of companies who arent in it for the extortion of money from the masses, and several of them are golf manufacturers

Keep up with your cynicism and disregard for teh sensible veiws of members on here guys - it does you well ;(

 

[HomerJSimpson]

Mungo - Spot on, glad someone else has seen the same point I was making.

Homer - What you do as an individual, doesn't mean that’s what the golf companies designed demo days for.

Do you others really believe that in the boardrooms of the golf companies, they come up with demo days as a goodwill gesture to golfers, and custom fitting, because they want to lower the worlds handicaps?

They come up with these schemes to sell equipment and make money for themselves and the shareholders. If making people better is a by product of this (custom fit), bonus!

You would have to be very naive to think any other way.

I'm sure the Solheim family in particular would be interested in that view. Karsten Solheims intial intentions was to produce an affordable product to make struggling golfers like himself enjoy their weekend game a little more. Granted, golf is big business but you can level your same level of cynicism at any consumer product from the PC your arguing on to the car you drive and simply say its big companies looking to make a buck.

Take a test drive for a new or used car. Isn't that the garage or dealer giving you the big come on in the same way you seem to think demo days are in golf. I still think you'll find a lot of maufacturers do see the demo as a way of getting new products out to as wide an audience for hands on testing as possible. Like I've said and which many have ingnored, it isn't TM, Ping, Cally etc who are trying to make the buck on the day. Its the range, golf store or club via sales in the shop which is why they tend to offer lucrative buy on the day offers. These aren't sanctioned by the maufacturer, its about the locality enticing people with money off the RRP

 

[AuburnWarrior]

Mungo - Spot on, glad someone else has seen the same point I was making.

Homer - What you do as an individual, doesn't mean that’s what the golf companies designed demo days for.

Do you others really believe that in the boardrooms of the golf companies, they come up with demo days as a goodwill gesture to golfers, and custom fitting, because they want to lower the worlds handicaps?

They come up with these schemes to sell equipment and make money for themselves and the shareholders. If making people better is a by product of this (custom fit), bonus!

You would have to be very naive to think any other way.

And you would have to be even more cynical to think that everybody in the world of business is a money making zealot who dont care about their product and its value to the masses. There are lots of companies who arent in it for the extortion of money from the masses, and several of them are golf manufacturers

Keep up with your cynicism and disregard for teh sensible veiws of members on here guys - it does you well ;(

Hmmm, in over two years on this forum I don't think I've read a post that I disagree with more than this one.

EVERY golf company is in it to make money - end of. If they don't, they go to the wall - simple. None of them offer demo days out of the goodness of their hearts. They do them so that you use their latest bit of kit and, hopefully, fall in love with it and buy it. That's the point of demo days.

Can you name me one company that has this 'peace, love and harmony' ethic that you speak of? I can't think of one...

 

[HRC99]

Mungo - Spot on, glad someone else has seen the same point I was making.

Homer - What you do as an individual, doesn't mean that’s what the golf companies designed demo days for.

Do you others really believe that in the boardrooms of the golf companies, they come up with demo days as a goodwill gesture to golfers, and custom fitting, because they want to lower the worlds handicaps?

They come up with these schemes to sell equipment and make money for themselves and the shareholders. If making people better is a by product of this (custom fit), bonus!

You would have to be very naive to think any other way.

And you would have to be even more cynical to think that everybody in the world of business is a money making zealot who dont care about their product and its value to the masses. There are lots of companies who arent in it for the extortion of money from the masses, and several of them are golf manufacturers

Keep up with your cynicism and disregard for teh sensible veiws of members on here guys - it does you well ;(

Hmmm, in over two years on this forum I don't think I've read a post that I disagree with more than this one.

EVERY golf company is in it to make money - end of. If they don't, they go to the wall - simple. None of them offer demo days out of the goodness of their hearts. They do them so that you use their latest bit of kit and, hopefully, fall in love with it and buy it. That's the point of demo days.

Can you name me one company that has this 'peace, love and harmony' ethic that you speak of? I can't think of one...

I think you are doing him a disservice there. He never said companies weren't about making profit rather said that not all companies were described by phrases such as "money making zealot", "doesn't care about their product" and "extortion of money".

There is a world of difference between a company that cynically attempts to hoodwink it's customer base to fleece them and another who seeks to make money by delivering a quality product, value for money and good customer service.

I'm not even sure people are actually reading other people's posts properly on this thread.

 

[Leftie]

Like I've said and which many have ingnored, it isn't TM, Ping, Cally etc who are trying to make the buck on the day. Its the range, golf store or club via sales in the shop which is why they tend to offer lucrative buy on the day offers. These aren't sanctioned by the maufacturer, its about the locality enticing people with money off the RRP

So, what you are saying then is that TM, Ping, Cally etc have a demo day at their own cost just out of the goodness of their hearts.

The mark then tries out various options free, humms and haas, the range/store/club salesman on site offers a good deal (in relation to the RRP ) and the mark falls for it.

Funnily enough, I don't think that the range/store/club salesman magics the new club(s) out of thin air. He orders them from TM, Ping, Cally etc. They get their sale at their normal price and the salesman gets his sale at a reduced profit margin. 10/15/20 sales in one day at a reduced margin can only be good for his back pocket.

What??? Leftie a cynic

 

[surefire]

Mungo - Spot on, glad someone else has seen the same point I was making.

Homer - What you do as an individual, doesn't mean that’s what the golf companies designed demo days for.

Do you others really believe that in the boardrooms of the golf companies, they come up with demo days as a goodwill gesture to golfers, and custom fitting, because they want to lower the worlds handicaps?

They come up with these schemes to sell equipment and make money for themselves and the shareholders. If making people better is a by product of this (custom fit), bonus!

You would have to be very naive to think any other way.

I'm sure the Solheim family in particular would be interested in that view. Karsten Solheims intial intentions was to produce an affordable product to make struggling golfers like himself enjoy their weekend game a little more. Granted, golf is big business but you can level your same level of cynicism at any consumer product from the PC your arguing on to the car you drive and simply say its big companies looking to make a buck.

I'm not being cynical, I'm being real.

At the end of the day, a business is out there to make money.
You can make money by producing a quality product and providing satisfaction, you don't have to gouge everyone to do it, but at the end of the day the real goal is to make money. If the goal wasn't to make money, and was to just make golfers better, it would be a hobby or a charity, rather than a business.

I don't doubt for example, that Karsten Solheim wanted to make an affordable and quality product that helps golfers. However, do you think he wanted to do this:

a) purely to help people. If it lost money, no problem, just keep ploughing more in, after all, it's just for satisfaction of seeing others improve.

b) to make a living. The fact that he helps others whilst doing it and has fun is even better still.

 

[surefire]

And you would have to be even more cynical to think that everybody in the world of business is a money making zealot who dont care about their product and its value to the masses. There are lots of companies who arent in it for the extortion of money from the masses, and several of them are golf manufacturers

Keep up with your cynicism and disregard for teh sensible veiws of members on here guys - it does you well ;(

Go on then, name me some of these golf companies who are not in it for a profit?

BTW, I never said that they were out there to rip off and extort people, I just said their primary goal was to make money. They offer demos and fitting, with the ultimate aim of making money, not solely to provide a fun day out at a loss.

Making money isn't mutually exclusive with providing a quality service and product, in fact in most cases the exact opposite is true.